graymouser

γενεα is glossed as "generation" in the Synoptics. Universally. You cannot show me one single use of γενεα in koine that is not referring to the current era or generation. There is not one reputable scholar of any bent who will gloss γενεα as "race" or "nation" or "the Jews" in Matt. 24:34. Theological conservatives have given it up in embarrassment because the argument for it is so bad.

Throughout the Synoptics γενεα is used as a referent for "this generation." It's a pattern. Every verse in Matthew, Mark and Luke with it is glossed as generation. The author of Matthew clearly knew it meant "generation," he used it as such in his first chapter (Matt 1:17). Look it up in Strong's, it's word #1074. It's always used in the NT in a sense that refers not to a "race" for all ages - there were better words that could have easily been used - but to an era or one's contemporaries (i.e., a generation).

IBelieveInHymn

Matthew is concerned with fourteen generations, probably because fourteen is the numerical value of the Hebrew letters forming the name of David. In the second section of the genealogy (Matthew 1:6-11), three kings of Judah, Ahaziah, Joash, and Amaziah, have been omitted (see 1 Chron 3:11-12), so that there are fourteen generations in that section. Yet the third (Matthew 1:12-16) apparently has only thirteen. Since Matthew here emphasizes that each section has fourteen, it is unlikely that the thirteen of the last was due to his oversight.

graymouser

This is not a response to what I wrote above. You have not provided any context or argument for your gloss of γενεα as anything other than "generation" in Matt 14:34. You have not provided any reason to think that it refers to "generation" a dozen times in Matthew and then the 13th time it is used, it switches meaning to "the Jewish people" without explanation or discussion of this fact. Do you even read the posts you reply to?

IBelieveInHymn

My response was to Matthew 1:17. As you stated.

Jesus was not refering to the current generation. Jesus said "No one knows of that Hour or day, not the angels, nor the Son, but only the Father."

I don't know how you conclude that Jesus was talking about his generation would see the end when he made it perfectly clear that No one knows when the end shall come.

Jesus also said the Jews must be gathered back in one place before his return. This was not possible until 1948. The Jews were scattered across the world due to the Roman iron hand.


How Preterists Misinterpret Matthew 24:34
http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue77.htm

graymouser

I was using Matthew 1:17 to establish why the gloss of every single translation of the Bible and every single commentator, except for some desperate millennial Christians, of "generation" for γενεα is correct. Obviously it's a problem if you believe in some kind of millennialism - but that's your problem, not mine.

"No one knows the hour or day" does not contradict "this generation shall not pass." That's pretty simple, actually - if I say something will happen in the next 10 years but I don't know the hour or the day, I'm not saying that it will happen at any time in the future and could be 200 years from now, I'm saying it will happen within the next 10 years, at some time I do not know right now. If 10 years pass and it doesn't happen, the conclusion should be that I was wrong, not that it will happen "sometime." Jesus was giving a prophecy that was not certain in time but neither was it unlimited. He gave a clear end time: this generation - the generation that is listening, which he has chastized throughout the Gospel as a theme - will not pass until these things (the coming of the Son of Man in glory) have occurred. No one knows the specifics, but the outlines are clear, and the parousia needs to have happened before 100 CE or so for the prophecy to have been true. (Being an atheist, I don't accept preterism and consider the prophecy to have been a false one, probably invented in the 70s CE to predict an imminent parousia.) The two verses make perfect sense in their mutual context.

IBelieveInHymn

The Olivet Discourse was originally delivered in Aramaic, then we cannot be certain that the meaning of this prediction hinged entirely on the Greek word used to translate it. γενεα, Genea and genos are, after all, closely related words from the same root. The Aramaic term that Jesus Himself probably used the Syriac Peshitta uses "sharbeta" here, which can mean either generation or race is susceptible to either interpretation.

Sometimes γενεα, genea (generation) was used as a synonym of genos, race, stock, nation, people. Although this meaning for genea is not common, it is found as early as Homer and Herodotus and as late as Plutarch (H.G. Liddell and R. Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, 9th ed., [Oxford: Clarendon, 1940], p.342).''

Jesus' words might be rendered, "This people shall not pass away until all these things are fulfilled.'' In that rendering, He could have been referring to the Jewish people (which is the most likely given the context) or to the Church for both Israel and the Church are given divine promises that they would remain in existence until the end of time. Jeremiah 31:35-37 Matthew 16:18.


This is a mistranslated verse to the uneducated eye.

Sheshbazzar

Another 2000 years will pass and this silly interpretation will also pass with it

graymouser

Mark, Matthew and Luke were written in Greek, not Aramaic. There is no evidence of their having been translated from Aramaic, and no reputable scholar holds this position. The prophecy uses γενεα, and you've got to live with it. In any case, $RBT) is also used in Matt. 1:17 in the Peshitta, so you're still stuck with the "generation" gloss.

This discussion thread is the first Google hit for γενεα and race. It's not even a well supported marginal translation, and even when γενεα is used in that sense it's a word strongly associated with time. In the Synoptics it's quite clearly set out in the common "generation" sense, in a word used in 27 verses (look in Strong's). Your proposal of an alternate gloss is painfully ad hoc, so much so that conservative Biblical scholars don't even make a serious case for it here. Even if it did somehow mean "race" despite the very common use (look at our word "generation" after all), you'd still be stuck with a sense that strongly implicates the contemporary race, not the race for all time.

Looking at other verses to clarify, the article you linked a few posts back really tortures the text trying to get Matt. 16:28 - which says that "there are some of you here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom" (NASB) - to support the idea that γενεα doesn't refer to time. It's blazingly clear that the prophecy refers to the current time and the current generation, and you're trying to torture words to mean something else.

Sheshbazzar

There is a Fundy theory that some of that audience never did die, and are still wandering around out there waiting for the second coming so they can finally die.

Hey! if ya gotta keep the ol' line of crap a'rollin ya gotta come up with some creative whoppers for explanations. :Cheeky:

Dark Virtue

Are you saying the Bible includes a mistranslated verse?

You are REALLY reaching. All you are doing is twisting the scriptures you make it match what you want it to.

It is CRYSTAL clear to everyone else here but you.

Again, you aren't being objective.