Johnny Skeptic

Regarding "Two men look out through the same bars:
One sees the mud, and one sees the stars", blind people are not able to see mud or stars. Neither are dead people. Regarding "the picture may be bad, but why spit on it", Saddam Hussein may be bad, but why spit on him, right? If the universe is naturalistic, there is no need for anyone to spit on it, but if the universe was created by an intelligent being, it is reasonable to spit on him.

Stumpjumper

So that would convince you huh? It probably wouldn't convince me...

You could very easily have been fooled by a very highly advanced alien species. In the Bible, miracles are not things that just happen out of the blue to people who aren't expecting them. They occur in conjunction with pre-existing faith (which varies in degrees of course) and are events that occured to bring about a course of action in conjuncion with a progressive revelation...

Jesus was born, as the Incarnation of God, as a Jew along with prophecy and unfloding events. He wasn't born a Cherokee in a vacuous attempt to tell a few people about God...

How do you know God is not doing everything possible to ensure that the majority of people do not go the hell?

What is hell? What is heaven?

How do people go there?

Thor Q. Mada

On the question if god is performing miracles today, the answer is of-course a resounding:
Yes, has much has he has always done.

MadPhatCat

Everytime someone I don't like gets struck by lightning it is a miracle. Praise Zeus!!!

EarlOfLade

Phiiifff....

EVERYONE knows that the thunder and lightning god is Thor!

MadPhatCat

Linking to wikipedia to further your pathetic argument is pathetic. But for once, it has part of it right:


PS - I just sacrificed a goat. Stay indoors for the rest of your life.

JerryM

A miracle is an event that violates the known laws of nature.

Most healings really don't qualify, IMO, since so many uncertain and complex factors are involved, and there is such an enormous nautral healing ability. It's well known that some patients can spontaneously recover from cancer, heart disease, comas, etc. May be unexpected, but hardly a miracle.

I think a true miracle would be something very simple and straightforward, which clearly violates the laws of physics. Like setting a pan of cool water in an enclosed room. And without any input of energy, or any trickery, the water begins to boil, while the surrounding air in the room gets colder. A reversal of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. That would be a miracle.

Perm

From memory only (various books/sources) weren't estimates of the actual number of people who *saw* a man named Jesus Christ probably less than 10,000... and possibly even much smaller than that?

Xtianity, for all intents and purposes, was a tiny and insignificant cult of its time. Through superstition and force, we now have the 800 lb gorilla.

ziffel

Which is exactly why there was almost nothing written about it by sources external to the bible. It exists today in large numbers for precisely the same reason Islam does.

Why do Christians dance every time someone asks them about miracles today? It's simple ... miracles, according to the bible, are the wonderful things Jesus did, and those things he said that Christian believers who followed him would do as well.

Why isn't Jesus reaching down from the sky and healing people with cleft palettes, amputated arms, etc? Why aren't his followers doing the same? (the first century disciples allegedly did). Why are people who pray for healing of their cancer dying long, drawn out, agonizing deaths anyway? Why isn't God trying to impress himself on humanity as he did in the first century? Why is the only thing he answers (in prayer) are things that are vague, unseen, questionable, and non-tangible?

Johnny Skeptic

Well, I said that that would convince me that at least one being in the universe had abilities that are far beyond the abilities of any human. If you wish to claim that creating a large building in front of the world media does not prove that, be my guest, by no one will believe you.

I know that. Do you actually read my posts? I said unless the being who showed up could explain to my satisfaction why he refused to do everything that the could in order to help ensure that as many people as possible go to heaven, and as few people as possible go to hell, I would reject him whether or not I believe that he was Jesus.

Because modern magicians would not have any problem at all going to some remote jungle regions and convincing at least a few people at least some of the time that they had supernatural powers, and were Gods. In addition, humans place great importance upon good health. ANY being who showed up and healed all of the sick people in the word would be greatly appreciated. If he founded a religion, it would probably become the largest religion in human history.

Those are some of your problems. Christians frequently have dramatically different interpretations regarding Scriptures about hell, heaven, and how people get there. If Christians cannot agree among themselves regarding these issues, how you you expect to have intelligent debates about these issues? Regardless of what hell and heaven are, and regardless of how people get there, God has not nearly done everything that the can in order to help ensure that as many people as possible go to heaven, and as few people as possible go to hell. You have attempted to use evasive diversionary tactics, but it won't get you anywhere.