wildernesse

This presumes that every Christian is asking for a million dollars (and other things as well). Perhaps they are not. Why would I ask for a million dollars? I don't have any financial needs.

I know several everyday Christians who are millionaires.

As for wealth, here's the definition from www.m-w.com
An abundant supply of things does not have to equal a million dollars. Most Americans have an abundant supply of material possessions or resources, whether they are Christian or not. Even unemployed people usually have things from before they were unemployed that would be considered wealth. If you are speaking about the average American/Westerner who is asking for wealth, and they don't get more than what they already have--well, I think they have some serious issues with objectivity.

Other options rather than that Jesus was a liar:

--God has met their church's needs and it doesn't need 100k
--those people don't need a million dollars
--Jesus didn't say those words in real life

Saying that just because people were generous that they need a million cooling off in their sock drawer is a little absurd.

Also, in the paragraph in Matthew 7 where this phrase occurs, it continues to say that God gives good gifts to his children. To say that Jesus is a liar since Christians aren't all millionaires, you need to show:

--a million dollars is an objectively good gift (and from the comments about the rich in the Bible, you could debate this)
--God's children are only Christians
--Jesus actually said this

In the paragraph in Luke 11 where this phrase occurs, it continues to say that this is in respect to the gift of the Holy Spirit--which means that your beef about Christians not receiving millions of dollars when they ask doesn't even fall under the scripture in question.

So there are plenty of other options rather than that Jesus was a liar.

enemigo

The million dollar question leaves open the greed defense... A better question is why are there starving children in the world? Surely there are Christians that sincerely and unselfishly pray for no children to go hungry.


richard

Pouye

*golf clap*

There are better arguments than this one. Good job.

Rock

wildernesse

Apparently not enough Christians read James.

That's a nice way to say: get out in the world and work for the change desired. Mere words/prayers are not enough. The fact that Christians have more than enough food (including myself) and that there are starving people means that Christians aren't living their faith (including myself). Charitable living isn't optional for Christians.

Or Matthew 25: 31-46, in which those standing before the Son of Man are judged by whether they did good deeds. Those who did not serve the lord by doing good deeds are sent to eternal punishment.

--tibac

Pouye

I get a little tired of hearing about starving kids and how God is to blame.

I actually work in a country where malnurishment kills children. In fact, the village I work in (in Papua New Guinea) has major problems with malnutrition, and I have seen several deaths as a result of poor diet. Part of my job as a linguist/translator is to educate people on how to feed their children (especially after weaning them from breast milk) so they will grow and be healthy. I have volunteered my time as a health worker there for years now.

My friends who work in some of the more difficult places in Africa are very frustrated, because most of the starvation there is not because of lack of education or even the weather patterns... it is because their governments oppress them and do little for minority groups who they could help if they wanted to. The problem is not lack of food, but the lack of the distribution of wealth and food -- in other words, many kids starve because their own greedy goverment doesn't give a damn about them.

My question for "free thinkers" on this forum who constantly use this argument is:

What are you doing to eleviate the problem of kids starving besides blaming a god you don't even believe in?

I'm doing my part actively, along with thousands of volunteers working in Christian organizations like World Vision, World Concern, Salvation Army, etc. who are trying their best to do something about the problem.

The Bible is clear that Christians are to bring the love of Christ in tangible ways:

"We know what real love is because Christ gave up his life for us. And so we also ought to give up our lives for our brothers and sisters. But if anyone has enough money to live well and sees a brother or sister in need and refuses to help—how can God's love be in that person?
Dear children, let us stop just saying we love each other; let us really show it by our actions."
1 John 3:16-18

"Dear brothers and sisters, what's the use of saying you have faith if you don't prove it by your actions? That kind of faith can't save anyone. Suppose you see a brother or sister who needs food or clothing, and you say, “Well, good-bye and God bless you; stay warm and eat well”—but then you don't give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do?
So you see, it isn't enough just to have faith. Faith that doesn't show itself by good deeds is no faith at all—it is dead and useless."
James 2:14-17

Until supposed "free thinking" people are concerned enough to get off of their butts and be part of the answer rather than part of the problem, IMO they have not earned the right to be heard.

Rock

lpetrich

"Ask and you shall receive"

Originally posted by mark9950
This is a total lie stated from Jesus Christ himself,If it was not a lie EVERY christian would be a millionaire and they are not.

judge:
This is just quote mining the bible. We can make the bible say whateever we want if we feel so inclined.

The Bible sometimes reminds me of what some Marxists have been known to say:

There is nothing on which Lenin does not contradict himself several times.

That may be an overstatement, but you people no doubt get the picture.

mark9950

I could come to the hypotesis that MANY christians could be HYPOCRITES or this verse is a total lie.


I wander which is it? maybe hell will be full of christians?

Would this verse apply to Jesus also?

Lanakila

Actually I know a guy named Shilling that provides scholarships at a Christian college, and DeVoss who has paid to build buildings at that same University. There is also a guy who owns a financial management organization (can't remember his name) who gives money to this same college all the time. (I attended there so I know what I am talking about). Every Christian is not a creep. Some are actually very nice giving people. They believe what I believe to be a myth, but that doesn't mean they are all crooks. If they are living by their book they should be the best, nicest people you could ever meet, except that they are doing to win you to Christianity. I was one for a very long time, and kind of have an inside tract.

Calzaer

Why should we have to? Allegedly, since Jesus would want kids to eat (I'd assume), all it should take is the asking. Unless the Bible is lying to you... again.

Roland98

Many of us on here are quite involved in several different charity organizations. I'm also a biologist working with pediatric infectious diseases, another huge problem (particularly in developing countries). However, I'm only one person, and the freethinkers you describe are but a minority of the population (at least, here in America). Imagine what good could be done if more Christians got off their butts and tried to be part of the answer, rather than blindly throwing money to build 10 million dollar cathedrals. (and I'm well aware that this is one of the cheaper ones). Imagine how many children could have been fed/vaccinated with that money.