Mysterious

God obviously didn't allow Mary Free-Will since she was a perfect preservation of God's Sanctifying Grace? If she had free-will, choice, actions, etc in a world of sinful mankind free of god's interventions, how could she birthed "Perfect Sinless Jesus" if not inspired by God?

Merlin

Mary as sinless is not Biblical.

ELECTROGOD

Yeah, getting knocked up out of wedlock usually isn't considered to be a sinless act by Christians.

Toto

Is free will Biblical? Please provide a citation.

So God made Mary an offer she couldn't refuse.

fromdownunder

My understanding of Catholic doctrine is that the term "Immaculate Conception" refers to the birth of Mary, not Jesus.

Norm

Chili

Free will is an illusion that exists only in the mind of slaves. This same is true for good and evil that only exists in the corrupted mind.

So here now we have Mary who is the ideal image of human perfection and therefore necessarily sinless and most certainly doesn't need Sanctifying Grace to be preserved. In fact, Mary wants to be liberated instead of preserved for which Dispensational Grace is needed in the mind of the upright sinner who kept her captive as the ideal of human perfection. IOW she was what gave substance to the integrity of Joseph and was the sum total of his virtues that he left behind when he left Eden (the woman was never banned from Eden to remain sinless (until she is raped via the HS which is possible but out of context here).

Chili

The woman was never banned from Eden?

spamandham

What does this have to do with BC or H?

Regardless, the concept of 'free-will' as generally conceived (pun intended), is inconsistent. So why should Mary be any different?

gstafleu

Perhaps you can lay a foundation for your questions by first providing the following:

1. Where in the bible does it say that Mary was "immaculate"
2. Where does it say she was free of sin (or is that the same as 1?)
3. Where is the concept of free will mentioned in the bible
4. Where does it say Jesus was perfect and sinless?

Once we have some answers to this, maybe we can start a discussion.

Gerard Stafleu

Clouseau

Mary was a Jewess. Jews expected a Messiah, born to a virgin.

Mary was a Jew in 'Galilee of the nations', a region of several faiths and cultures, where there were options to believe in other than the God of the Jews.

Mary was betrothed to Joseph, who was descended from David and Judah, through whom the descent of the Messiah was to be.

So when Gabriel told Mary that she was to have a baby, the Messiah, her free will was not put aside.

Mary was not involved in the decision, other than by her willingness to marry Joseph. There is no reason to ascribe any merit to her, and indeed, the Bible commends many people, but never Mary. Whether Mary liked the idea of a Messiah, we don't know, but the indications overall are that she did not, in my considered judgment.