Magdlyn

Many more than 1 person came back to life. Jesus raised a newly dead 12 yo girl and a 3 days dead Lazarus. As well,

As well, in GMat 27 (after/during the eclipse):
...the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom; and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

:shudder

All these amazing events are unrecorded elsewhere.

Magdlyn

The wedding where Jesus turned water into wine was in John only. John contains many stories about Jesus that are not in the synoptic gospels.

GMark, the first gospel written, records in the first chapter:

In those days Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw the heavens opened and the Spirit descending upon him like a dove;
and a voice came from heaven, "Thou art my beloved Son; with thee I am well pleased." The Spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness.

In GJohn, it does not even record that Jesus was baptized. John the Baptizer only is recorded as saying he saw a dove descend on Jesus.

If you will please read the first chapter of John, it has no record of Jesus going immediately into the wilderness. Instead, Jesus immediately starts collecting disciples at the Jordan. 2 of them that night stay with him at his residence in the area. The next day he decides to return to Galilee.

Day one: John speaks of dove at Jordan River, Jesus gets a few disciples, spends the night in the area with them,
Day two: Jesus decides to go to Galilee,
Day three: (and it says right there in chapter 2, on the third day) they attend the wedding at Cana in Galilee

Sadly, one allegiance, not only do you not have extra-Biblical evidence for Jesus, you are not even literate in the Bible itself. Instead of wasting our time here posting websites that contradict your position, and talking about things you know nothing about, I suggest you actually spend some time reading the Bible. I recommend the New Oxford Annotated, but any Bible will do.

Doug Shaver

Ah, but you don't understand inerrantist thinking. You have to correctly read the parts that aren't there. "Jesus did not go into the wilderness" is not in John's gospel. And because it is not in there, it can't be true. Therefore, it must be true that Jesus did go into the wilderness.

Doesn't that make a lot more sense than imagining that John might have made a mistake?

Magdlyn

Oh, I understand it all right.


Hey, if Jesus was God, he could do anything, right? Maybe he was at a wedding at Cana 3 days after the dove incident, and also in the wilderness at the same time??? Partying and fasting simultaneously! :devil1: :angel:

Or, then again, maybe there were 2 Jesuses. After all, he did have a twin (didymos)! So, people just thought they saw him at the (his own) wedding. I think Mom was in on it. Ever since he killed one of his playmates and brought him back to life, she knew what a joker he was.:grin:

There, I've worked out it. Take your pick.:wave:

darstec

I don't think you understand it at all. Remember those authors only had so much papyrii lying around so they couldn't write each detail down.

What you have to read between the lines is that when Jesus went into the wilderness he found a cave. Now you know how those caves were, meandering here and there. It just so happened that one of those tunnels ended up directly under the house where the wedding was being held. Hearing the noise, Jesus went uptop to investigate and found himself smack dab in the middle of a wedding. [By all accounts and unfortunately for him, as wandering around in the wilderness was more fun, it was his own wedding for why else would his mother take on the responsibilities of the bridegroom's parents?] Now where his twin comes in was at the actually marriage proposal. It was his brother's concept of a practical joke. You see, his twin put on Jesus turban and proposed to Martha and Mary pretending to be Jesus. And Didymous had the good sense to steer clear of the area for some time thereafter.

Now as to fasting, there is nothing in the story that said Jesus was eating. For you see, imbibing doesn't count, especially after wandering around in the wilderness. Spelunking in those wilderness caves makes one very thirsty. It has something to do with the drip, drip, drip sound of the water. [Don't believe everything you hear about those caves being dry and perfect for preservation of manuscripts, as those explorers haven't found the really interesting tunnels or they would all know the true story about Jesus and Cana.]
:Cheeky:

Magdlyn

I stand corrected! :notworthy:

Gamera

Nope. Three authors wrote about Socrates either during his life or shortly afterwards. The existence of those very authors is even less established than Socrates. The mss are all late. One of the authors was a playwright, writing fiction. Fiction.

The other had a grudge against Athens (being ultimately exiled from the city) and had a motive to make up a trial of a virtuous man - let's call him Socrates.

And the third was a philosopher who was writing purported dialogs years later with the purpose of promoting HIS philosophy, not Socrates.

So in fact there is very little real historical evidence of Socrates. Certainly no more than there is of Jesus.

That by the way is true for almost every historical personage until the middle ages. There simply were very few contemporary means of writing about living persons. So your arguments against Jesus' historicity apply equally to Socrates, Pericles and Aristotle.

Now I'm convinced, given the limitations of the record keeping of the time, that Socrates, Pericles and Aristotle existed. For the same reason, I'm convinced Jesus existed.

TomboyMom

Well, that's three more than wrote about Jesus during his life or shortly afterwards.

3>0

That's fine if Christians would just be honest about it, and say: there are no contemporary historical records for Jesus, then they could go on to argue/justify (as you do) why that doesn't mean there wasn't an historical Jesus. My gripe is with the Christians who spread the falsehood that there are such records. This assertion can be found all over the 'net and has been seen on these boards, and is false.

Cool, per above. However, the Jesus that one can reasonably be convinced existed is a far cry from the Christ Jesus.

xaxxat

:notworthy:

Gullwind

Of course, I don't recall any accounts of Socrates, Pericles and Aristotle walking on water, turning water into wine or rising from the dead. Don't forget that you have to evaluate the claims made about the person when considering the question of their existence.

If one of those authors had claimed Socrates could fly, would you believe that also?