steamer

Knock knock. "Yo god, it's me Steamer."
"Go away! I'm doing the dishes."
"oh c'mon Helpmabob says you have to open up!"
"oh all right, what do you want?"
"I've come to ask you not to fry me eternally."
"Well why didn't you say so before? You could have saved me a lot of fuel"
"Why would you think I'd want to burn in hell?"
"Well because you don't think I exist.
"That's a lame reason, got anything else?"
"Uh, no, not really, its just an ultimatum."
"If you want me to believe in you, just give me some evidence that you exist."
"Then you won't have faith."
"What's so great about faith, isn't that just pretending really hard anyways?"
"Faith is really peachy."
"No it isn't, it's bullshit!"
"I said so."
"Where? In the bible? Isn't that the same place that tells us you send lying spirits to your profiteers, er I mean phrophets? Why should we believe that when the book itself says it may be a lie?"
"Good point, Ok, I admit it, I don't exist and you are making up this whole conversation."
"Well what about helpmabob, should w tell him?"
"Nah, if he's happy worshipping an imaginary torture-god, why not let him live in ignorant bliss?"
"Good point. Life is short and happiness is more important than truth."

Harumi

Tons actually. We have our own creation myths, a similar flood story, and furthermore, our gods don't commit genocide or write hard to understand books, and the morals they abide by actually make sense. They are not all powerful, but given what I've seen of this world, if gods, in particular your god, exist at all, then he certainly isn't omnipotent either.

And I'm not sure what your point at here, but the bible is most eath-centric. I recall nothing about the universe (except for stars, which as the bible failed to point out, some are actually planets), and no, the sky is not a dome, nor is it held up by four pillars.

If you can't prove that god exists, then how are we supposed to know that the bible is written by god? How do we know that it isn't a bunch of shepherds on weed who wrote it, or even better, how do we know that it isn't Satan who wrote it to lead us astray? The fact that my friends disagree greatly with you despite you being the same religion, what kind of omnipotent, omnibenovolent god sends mixed messages?

And as far as I'm concerned, a god who sends people to hell for an honest mistake is not forgiving, but a immoralist of the deepest kind of evil.

The only thing you have to offer is warm and fuzzy feelings, and that is not enough. I felt plenty warm and fuzzy feelings when I still believed in Chinese gods. I highly doubt that yours are any different from mine. Many people here were former Christians. To tell us that we need to seek god is insulting. Some of them fought long and hard with what they learned before inevitably becoming atheist. We had sought god, we had cried and begged and pleaded for the being to show itself, and guess what? God did not come. We could not find him.

Until you figure this out, and for that matter, come to a solid consensus about the nature of your god and religion with your fellow Christians, I will remain an atheist. Of course, once I supposedly find god, to get me to worship him will be a totally different matter. I see no reason to worship an evil being of your god's caliber.

ninewands

For my money, I do not believe in Hell but if it does exist the descriptions in the Bible (specifically, Jeremiah 32:35) make it sound like a pretty nice place, and I'm sure the company there is more interesting than it is in Heaven if the fundamentalists are right about who's going to which.

JPD

So this makes some degree of sense. God can be neither proven nor disproven. The "evidence" of which you speak is indirect but can be seen as being evidence of itself with no evidence whatsoever to tie it to your non-existent God. The creator revealed in the Bible is beneath contempt and not worthy of consideration for anything more than pissing in a pot.


Preaching is of no interest to anyone here. Guess what - most of us used to believe what you do now and we can read it for ourselves (when, for example, we are bringing things that are evidently beyond your comprehension to your attention).

So given that you have recognised your audience what impact is this likely to have? It rhymes with piddly pot.

Try working out the ramifications and conclusions before releasing your deranged worldview on us. It helps you to feel less embarrassed when we point out the obvious shortcomings in your arguments.

What is this supposed to be? Proof through mindess repetition of hackneyed phraseology?

Who knows? Telling someone that you think they are going to hell is not the most brilliant or original assertion ever. The impression it gives is of someone who is unable to connect with people except through fear (masquerading as enlightenment). In an adult it isn't the most becoming of attitudes.

Clarice O'C

Hiya,

You can't be sure you'll be forgiven by anyone. Thems the breaks. But you have done your part in apologizing. You're then free. The onus is on them. If someone *needs* for them to forgive them and can't get over it if they don't, well, I'd suggest psychotherapy. I'm not saying this is you, though.

Coffee?

Helpmabob

Steamer – Entertaining stuff, but do you really not believe in God; even the devil does: You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that —and shudder. [James 2:19]But eternity will be longer, and happiness is to be found in the truth.

Hi Harumi – I really think that is the topic of a different thread, but you need to read it, seeking answers, rather than ‘contradictions’ and decide for yourself whether it stacks up.

Can you ask them to lead me to a website or something that sums up their beliefs, then I can say something meaningful about this, thanks.

Not at all. There is nothing I have which is not disputed by those who wish to deny God. Yet, it is not what I have to offer which is worth anything, but that which your God has to offer you. Salvation in Christ is on offer, and it comes free.
We cannot change what God has set in place, except to the extent He will answer our prayers, and that within his will. It is not said anywhere in the Bible that all will turn to God. Indeed, most will exclude themselves from His presence forever. Some will be atheists.

Ninewands – If you believe in hell, why not heaven, as it will be better there?

Clarice – In what way does this forgiveness process make you free? Why have you chosen to approach things this way?

Two sugars please.

JPD

Wow - compelling argument - one mythical being "believes" in another

JPD

Ah, that strange and ever morphing element "the truth". Tell me, does your take offer anything of any depth, interest or intrigue.....reading your responses again....ah no, same old same old unfortunately. I will let you know if any of your assertions are even in the slightest compelling but as it stands you are producing the unsupported waffle that is the standard output of creationists/fundamentalists who post here.

Clarice O'C

Once you've aologized to someone, you've paid your debt to them. Your conscience should be free of guilt over what you did. I live this approach because it's the way life is in the real world.



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http://www.samharris.org/

John A. Broussard

Are you saying that we should believe what the devil believes because the devil can't be in error?

I'm looking forward to your answer.