sugarhitman

Jack I will write about this soon. But I will give you some evidence now. Armegeddon is located in Israel, Mystery Babylon is Jerusalem (The great City WHERE OUR LORD WAS CRUCIFIED). Those 144,000 witnesess from the tribes of Israel are Jewish. The woman with the sun over her head and the moon under her feet with 12 stars WHO GAVE BIRTH TO THE MALE CHILD WHO IS TO RULE THE EARTH is the nation of Israel. The glorious city coming out of heaven is THE NEW JERUSALEM. The New Jerusalem is the last restoration of Israel. From here on out Jerusalem will never again be uprooted. Revelations is all about Israel. Many people do not know this because they have the wrong identity for who Mystery Babylon is. Some have it as America, Rome, or Babylon. The Angel gives the indentity of who this city is by saying "where our Lord was crucified." Jerusalem also sits on seven mountains. Jerusalem becomes Mystery Babylon after the beast makes it his capital. Jesus calls him the abomination sitting in the Holy place. Paul calls him the man who sits in the Temple of God showing himself to be God. This place is in Jerusalem. The beast will be the Jews false Messiah. When Jesus returns He returns to Jerusalem where the last world war (which will be against the Jews) will be...in Jerusalem. Revelations is almost completely about Israel. :wave:

Dogfish

Redefining the word, "evidence" now, huh?

sugarhitman

Note: Pharoah heart was already hard. God hardens an already hardened persons heart by giving them over to a "reprobate mind" (an evil spirit, just like he did to king Saul which is manifested by outburts of rage fiery hatred and an unbashful rebeliousness against God) these are those who will never convert or love God, in the end God will give such a person up to their own hard heart which is then given over to Satan...they are pretty much judged while they yet live...dead men walking. False repentence is not sincere repentence, which usually happens when punishment becomes to great to bare....I can imagine many people repenting in Hell (read the rich man and Lazerus) but a true rebel never repents sincerely....including Pharoah.


Giving oneself the victory when there is none is a reflection of self- delusion. :wave:

Dogfish

There goes ANOTHER irony meter!

Jack the Bodiless

...STILL no actual account of the re-formation of the nation of Israel.

Each of your posts merely provides further proof that you don't have a clue.
...Sez who? Exodus doesn't. Another book you've never read?

DrZoidberg

Maybe Isreal exists because of politics? Maybe God had nothing to do with it? I'm banking on the Bible prophecies being irrelevant.

martini

i think you are not getting it. if i prophecy that i will buy a new car without taking out a car loan, work for several years saving up every dime, then buy it, am i a prophet? did you bother to read the link on what self-fulfilling prophecy means?

another example that may help elucidate this expression: Manifest Destiny. it was decided that our country, at the wishes of our leaders at the time, include all land from the Atlantic to the Pacific. after decades, by hook or by crook. through treaty and genocide, we pulled it off. does that make it this supernatural prophecy that you seem to define with Israel? hardly. Jewish leaders convinced the Brits to partition some land for Israel.

JEWISH leaders seeking a restored Israel as per their myth

convinced

CHRISTIAN leaders seeking to recreate Israel as per THEIR myth

how on Earth is that ANYTHING except a self-fulfilling prophecy?

sugarhitman

Pharoah oversaw the brutal enslaving of the Jews. This alone should show you what kind of people they were.

"And Pharaoh said "Who is the Lord, that I should obey His voice to let Israel go? I do not know the Lord, nor will I let Israel go." Exodus 5

....he sinned yet more; and he hardened his heart, he and his servents. So the heart of Pharoah was hard; neither would he let the children of Israel go. Exodus 9


Pharoah sinned, God violates no mans will. But when God give you over to a "reprobate mind" thats it.

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a REPROBATE MIND, to do those thing which are not convenient; being FILLED with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, debate, deciet, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, HATERS OF GOD, despiteful, PROUD, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, WITHOUT NATURAL AFFECTION, implacable, UNMERCIFUL."---Romans 1


Note: God gave them over to a reprobate mind to do these things. Meaning if you refuse to obey God he will give you over to a peverse mind that will lead you straight into hell. Your concious will no longer function, and without a concious, your heart will grow harder and harder, your deeds will wax worse and worse....and the voice of God (concious) will not prevent you (why should He, you wont listen anyway). This is how God hardens the heart of the already hard. :wave:

Johnny Skeptic

What restoration are you referring to? God promised Abraham and his descendants ALL of the ancient land of Canaan. Today, Jews do not occupy even 90% of the ancient land of Canaan.

Why did God allow Titus to kill 500,000 Jews in the early part fo the 2nd century A.D.? Well, you might claim that if God had not protected the Jews that Titus would have killed 1,000,000 of them.

The Bible claim that God's protection of the Jews was dependent upon good behavior is utterly absurd. What kinds of good behavior, and by what percentage of Jews? What if 90% of Jews had had good behavior, and 10% of Jews had had bad behavior? What about Jews who were babies? What did God have against them?

What is admirable about stealing other people's land by force? There is not a necessary correlation between power and good character.

What evidence do you have that God made a land promise to Abraham? The current Jewish presence in Palestine is not sufficient proof that God made a land promise to Abraham.

Which Scriptures are you referring to? I am particularly interested in why God predicts the future.

If the prophecies had not been written, what is odd about Jewish history? Without military and financial help from the U.S. and Britain, Jews would not have been able military take part of Palestine. What is odd about superior military forces helping a much weaker military force acquire land? If Jews had taken parts of Palestine without anyone's help, your arguments would be much better, but such was not the case.

Johnny Skeptic

Ah, yes, evasiveness, which is typical of fundies when they know that they are in trouble. A few weeks ago, I forget in which thread, I asked you why God predicts the future. I have forgotten what your reply was. That is why I asked you to summarize or update your previous explanations. Although I do not recall what you said, I remember that what you said did not make any sense. Unless you can come with some good reasons why God predicts the future, you lose.

Since God broke his promise to give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar, it is already reasonably established that God is a liar, or at least that he is needlessly deceptive and deliberately causes confusion. A couple of weeks ago you said in another thread that you would get around to discussing the Nebuchadnezzar issue, but I suspect that you are afraid to discuss that issue and hoped that I would forget about that issue and not bring it up again. Well, that is not the case. I will bring up the Nebuchadnezzar issue as frequently as necessary in order to prove that God is a liar, and in order to prove that you are evasive.

Any moral being who was able to predict the future would use that ability to predict natural disasters, and make other predictions that would help people. A loving God would certainly not primarily concern himself with making prophecies that only helped a small fraction of the people in the world. It is obvious that the Jews appointed themselves to be God's chosen people. That explains why the Gospel message was spread from Palestine, and entirely by human effort. There is not any historical evidence that God ever told one single person about the Gospel message. How do you account for that? Do you consider the spread of the Gospel message to be more important that the spread of a cure for cancer? If so, why doesn't God?

The claim that God's protection of the Jews was conditional upon good behavior is utterly aburd. No rational person would ever believe such a ridiculous claim. What percentage of the Jews was God referring to, 51%, 70%, 90%, or some other percent? What kind of behavior? What about babies? No loving God would punish babies for their parents' poor behavior. You might as well suggest that when a man is sent to prison that his innocent son be sent to prison too.

Exodus 20:5 says that God punishes people for sins that their ancestors committed.

In spite of the fact that God supposedly inspired James to write that if a man refuses to give food to hungry people, he is vain, and his faith is dead, God has refused to give food to millions of people who died of starvation, many of whom were devout and faithful Christians who asked God to give them food.

If the universe is naturalistic (I am not saying that it is), all tangible benefits would be indiscriminately distributed at random according to the laws of physics without any regard for a person's needs, requests, or worldview. The only benefits that anyone could ask God for and expect to receive would be subjective spiritual/emotional benefits, and yet the Bible says that Christians should ask God for tangible benefits. If you did receive a tangible benefit, how would you know that God gave it to you? In addition, how would you know why God gave it to you? Many skeptic have much better health than many devout Christians do, and do not live in poverty like many Christians do. There are not any good reasons that I can think of why God would want to provide tangible benefits to skeptics more than he would want to provide tangible benefits to Christians. In addition, I am not aware of any good reasons why God would want to mimic the way that tangible benefits would be distributed if the universe is naturalistic, which gives many people the impression that God is irrational, and/or immoral, and more likely, that he does not exist.

May I ask what good prophecies are to people who do not have access to them? Millions of people died without having any knowledge of the God of the Bible.