Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 07-14-2012, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Acts of the Apostles is considered to have been written AFTER the Gospels in the Canon so it is EXTREMELY important that we take the statements from Acts extremely seriously.

1. Acts of the Apostles is Canonised and regarded as authentic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

The canonization of Acts is late 4th century according to the Blessed Letter of Saint Athanasius himself...

The Fact that Acts of the Apostles is Canonised and Regarded as authentic by the Church means that whatever it contains MUST be taken into consideration when making any Inquiry of the History of the Church.

Please, would you DISREGARD and DISCARD the written statements of a Defendant simply because you believe the defendant may have lied???

Everything in Acts of the Apostles can be held AGAINST the author. Everything in Acts is extremely important to decipher the history of the Jesus cult.

Church History

Quote:

6. For in the Acts of the Apostles, a work universally acknowledged as authentic, it is recorded that all the companions of the apostles sold their possessions and their property...

The author of Acts claimed the disciples GOT their POWER to preach the Gospel from a Ghost.

If the Disciples did NOT get the POWER from a Ghost then the author of Acts is a LIAR or wrote Fiction.

Acts of the Apostles is either a Myth Fable or a Fiction story.

aeebee50 · 07-14-2012, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

... I am not a scholar on the Bible, but I thought he was alive when he went around with his disciples.

Well, when was a human Jesus alive??

God was alive when he made ADAM???

Jesus was ALIVE when he was WALKING on the sea??

Jesus was ALIVE when he transfigured with the Resurrected Moses and Elijah???

The Angel Gabriel was ALIVE when it went to the city of Nazareth to talk to Mary???

Satan and Jesus were ALIVE when they were on the Pinnacle of the Temple during the Temptation???

Please, BILLIONS of PEOPLE THINK everybody in the Bible were ALIVE.

People Even BELIEVE Jesus the Son of a Ghost, WAS ALIVE that WALKED on water, and Transfigured.

No author of the Canon claimed Jesus was Human.

The authors of the Canon stated Jesus was a Son of a God born of a Ghost and a Virgin.

People of antiquity BELIEVED the Myth Gods were ALIVE during the time of Pilate.

The Myth Gods Jupiter, Juno, Neptune, PLUTO, Mecury, Apollo, Venus and others WERE ALIVE during the reign of Tiberius???

The Jesus stories are 2nd century Myth Fables COMPETING with the Myth Fables of the Greek and Romans.

The Jesus Myth Fables eventually WON the Competition.

The Greeks and Romans ACCEPTED the Jesus MYTH FABLE as history.

Remember, I said I was not a scholar. Let me answer the first question in a non-scholar layman way without use of books, but my two cents.

Quote:

Well, when was a human Jesus alive??

Here goes. He was alive 0 A.D. to about 33 A.D., until he was killed by the Romans. This is not common era because I am not a historian.
Would you answer one question?

Quote:

The Myth Gods Jupiter, Juno, Neptune, PLUTO, Mecury, Apollo, Venus and others WERE ALIVE during the reign of Tiberius???

I do not understand the word alive? I assume they were alive in the minds of those who believed it. To me, they were myths. I assume Tiberius was Caesar of the Roman Empire. Sorry for the lack of knowledge, but I told you I was not a scholar.

aa5874 · 07-14-2012, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

The Jesus stories are 2nd century Myth Fables COMPETING with the Myth Fables of the Greek and Romans.

The Jesus Myth Fables eventually WON the Competition.

The Greeks and Romans ACCEPTED the Jesus MYTH FABLE as history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

Remember, I said I was not a scholar. Let me answer the first question in a non-scholar layman way without use of books, but my two cents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Well, when was a human Jesus alive??

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

Here goes. He was alive 0 A.D. to about 33 A.D., until he was killed by the Romans. This is not common era because I am not a historian...

Your knowledge of your Jesus is WITHOUT the use of books, WITHOUT evidence from antiquity.

Your knowledge of Your Jesus is from your OWN imagination and Guesswork.

You are a typical example of HJers.

HJers' Jesus was assembled WITHOUT the use of HARD EVIDENCE in any book.

Man invented a God which created ADAM.

You created your Jesus.

Now, please go READ the books of antiquity to find out about the character called Jesus of Nazareth.

You are in for a MASSIVE surprise.

Jesus of Nazareth was NOT born 0 AD--it is claimed in BOOKS that HE was BEFORE all things were made and that he is NOT dead yet.

Please, please, please, Just go and READ some books from antiquity ABOUT Jesus and STOP GUESSING.

John 1

Quote:

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made .

In BOOKS of antiquity, Jesus was a Myth.

You don't have to be a scholar to read and understand books of antiquity.

aa5874 · 07-14-2012, 08:26 AM

The book called Acts of the Apostles CONTRADICTS the HJ argument.

This book SHOWS that a supposed character called Saul/Paul BELIEVED Jesus existed based ENTIRELY on what he HEARD.

Saul/Paul was BLINDED like a Bat when he heard VOICES of the supposed Jesus.

Acts 9

Quote:

And as he journeyed , he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4And he....... heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5And he said , Who art thou , Lord? And the Lord said , I am Jesus whom thou persecutest : it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.6And he trembling and astonished said , Lord, what wilt thou have me to do ? And the Lord said unto him, Arise , and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do .

7And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. 8And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened , he saw no man: but they led him by the hand , and brought him into Damascus.

There was NO requirement for an actual human Jesus for Saul/Paul to have gained knowledge of Jesus in Acts.

Paul in Acts gained knowledge of his Jesus while he was BLIND and WITHOUT his physical presence.

Paul a supposed contemporary of Jesus did NOT require an Historical Jesus--Saul/Paul only needed his IMAGINATION.

The HARD Evidence shows that the Jesus story is based on what was HEARD--NOT on what was SEEN.

The Jesus story was FIRST HEARD in the 2nd century or later and people of antiquity merely BELIEVED it was true.

aeebee50 · 07-14-2012, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

The Jesus stories are 2nd century Myth Fables COMPETING with the Myth Fables of the Greek and Romans.

The Jesus Myth Fables eventually WON the Competition.

The Greeks and Romans ACCEPTED the Jesus MYTH FABLE as history.

Your knowledge of your Jesus is WITHOUT the use of books, WITHOUT evidence from antiquity.

Your knowledge of Your Jesus is from your OWN imagination and Guesswork.

You are a typical example of HJers.

HJers' Jesus was assembled WITHOUT the use of HARD EVIDENCE in any book.

Man invented a God which created ADAM.

You created your Jesus.

Now, please go READ the books of antiquity to find out about the character called Jesus of Nazareth.

You are in for a MASSIVE surprise.

Jesus of Nazareth was NOT born 0 AD--it is claimed in BOOKS that HE was BEFORE all things were made and that he is NOT dead yet.

Please, please, please, Just go and READ some books from antiquity ABOUT Jesus and STOP GUESSING.

John 1

Quote:

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made .

In BOOKS of antiquity, Jesus was a Myth.

You don't have to be a scholar to read and understand books of antiquity.

The books I use do not bother me. I have a lot of books to read and will have more. I probably would quote from Matthew when Jesus was walking with his disciples. My problem has been with Paul, but I am better. I was just courious not questioning anything you said. Thanks.

aa5874 · 07-14-2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

...The books I use do not bother me. I have a lot of books to read and will have more. I probably would quote from Matthew when Jesus was walking with his disciples. My problem has been with Paul, but I am better. I was just courious not questioning anything you said. Thanks.

The book called Acts is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT because it is part of the Canon and was regarded as authentic by the Church writers.

The author of Acts EXPLAINED the START of the Jesus cult.

It mattered NOT what Jesus did or did NOT do BEFORE the resurrection.

An actual Human Jesus could have done ten thousand Miracles it would NOT matter. Jesus MUST resurrect to Commision the disciples and to tell when and where to WAIT for the GHOST.

The disciples were POWERLESS without the Ghost in Acts.
The Disciples could NOT preach WITHOUT the Ghost.

The author of Acts wrote NOTHING of an Historical Jesus--just the Resurrected Jesus and the Holy Ghost.

The Activities of the Disciples were POWERED by a Ghost.

Act of the Apostles is a Ghost story, a Myth Fable of antiquity, that was BELIEVED by the very Greek and Roman who BELIEVED in Myth Fables.

People of antiquity in the 2nd century BELIEVED Marcion's Son of God was a Phantom WITHOUT Birth and Flesh and some ALSO Believed that it was a holy GHOST that gave the Disciples the POWER to preach the Jesus story.

aeebee50 · 07-14-2012, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

...The books I use do not bother me. I have a lot of books to read and will have more. I probably would quote from Matthew when Jesus was walking with his disciples. My problem has been with Paul, but I am better. I was just courious not questioning anything you said. Thanks.

The book called Acts is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT because it is part of the Canon and was regarded as authentic by the Church writers.

The author of Acts EXPLAINED the START of the Jesus cult.

It mattered NOT what Jesus did or did NOT do BEFORE the resurrection.

An actual Human Jesus could have done ten thousand Miracles it would NOT matter. Jesus MUST resurrect to Commision the disciples and to tell when and where to WAIT for the GHOST.

The disciples were POWERLESS without the Ghost in Acts.
The Disciples could NOT preach WITHOUT the Ghost.

The author of Acts wrote NOTHING of an Historical Jesus--just the Resurrected Jesus and the Holy Ghost.

The Activities of the Disciples were POWERED by a Ghost.

Act of the Apostles is a Ghost story, a Myth Fable of antiquity, that was BELIEVED by the very Greek and Roman who BELIEVED in Myth Fables.

People of antiquity in the 2nd century BELIEVED Marcion's Son of God was a Phantom WITHOUT Birth and Flesh and some ALSO Believed that it was a holy GHOST that gave the Disciples the POWER to preach the Jesus story.

Interesting. Marcion was considered a heretic by many in the 2nd century.http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-canon-of-marcion.htm I am glad I live now instead of back then because they find me a heretic. I do not like fire.

aa5874 · 07-15-2012, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

Interesting. Marcion was considered a heretic by many in the 2nd century.http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-canon-of-marcion.htm I am glad I live now instead of back then because they find me a heretic. I do not like fire.

"Against Marcion" attributed to Tertullian appears to be a Forgery. NO Church writer claimed Tertullian wrote a such a book when they listed books by him up to or about the 5th century.

Plus Apologetic sources contradict "Against Marcion"--Hippolytus claimed Marcion did NOT use the Pauline writings but those of Empedocles and Ephraim the Syrian who wrote Against Marcion did NOT show that Marcion was aware of the writimgs of Paul.

aeebee50 · 07-15-2012, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

Interesting. Marcion was considered a heretic by many in the 2nd century.http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-canon-of-marcion.htm I am glad I live now instead of back then because they find me a heretic. I do not like fire.

"Against Marcion" attributed to Tertullian appears to be a Forgery. NO Church writer claimed Tertullian wrote a such a book when they listed books by him up to or about the 5th century.

Plus Apologetic sources contradict "Against Marcion"--Hippolytus claimed Marcion did NOT use the Pauline writings but those of Empedocles and Ephraim the Syrian who wrote Against Marcion did NOT show that Marcion was aware of the writimgs of Paul.

I do not doubt you, but I will keep asking and searching. It seems like Marcion is like Arius, they do not go with the Trinity. There are a lot of groups in history like Marcionites which have tried to destroy religion. I am not talking about Atheists or Agnostics. I thought these groups died out, but they must be alive and well. Thanks, this is very educational. You seem well versed in these subjects and a great resource.

aa5874 · 07-15-2012, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeebee50

I do not doubt you, but I will keep asking and searching. It seems like Marcion is like Arius, they do not go with the Trinity. There are a lot of groups in history like Marcionites which have tried to destroy religion. I am not talking about Atheists or Agnostics. I thought these groups died out, but they must be alive and well. Thanks, this is very educational. You seem well versed in these subjects and a great resource.

Please, you can become versed in the subjects if you READ and EXAMINE the writings of antiquity. It is the WRITTEN statements from antiquity that matter.

Incredibly, when the History of the Church by Eusebius was written only one writing called "The Apology" was attributed to Tertullian.

Another writer called Jerome claimed Tertullian wrote AGAINST the Church and never attributed any books called "Against Marcion" to Tertullian.

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