mark9950

Why are the facts and the talmud hidden from christianity?

I know that this was supposed to be only for the Jews but yet there is really no difference betwwen a jew or greek(biblically speaking)

For 29 years I went to church and never heard of the talmud until just recently.

Every time I would find stuff about Jesus being gay,a false prophet whatever I would find something.

Also Peter maybe you can help me understand this

2) He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).

Sexually immoral?Gay perhaps? the jews believe but the bible says he had no sex.

http://www.noahide.com/yeshu.htm

What is up?

Peter Kirby

The New Testament doesn't directly say that Jesus had, or did not have, sex.

You can read the text of the talmudic episode here:

Yeshu and Joshua b. Perachiah

Basically, it goes: Joshua was once travelling and came upon a bed and breakfast, where they were treated well. Joshua said, "The hospitality around here is bitchin!" Josh retorted to his teacher, "Dude, she looks butt ugly." Joshua said, "You little twerp, is that all you think about?" And little Josh was kicked out of the club that day with great fanfare.

[That is a loose & modern paraphrase. Here is the translation in Zindler's book, pp. 249-250:]

B. Sanh. 107b: What of R. Jehoshua ben Perahjah? When Jannai the king [r. 104-78 BCE] killed our Rabbis, R. Jehoshua ben Perahjah [and Jesus] fled to Alexandria of Egypt. When there was peace, Shimon ben Shetah sent to him, "From me [Jerusalem] the city of holiness, to thee Alexandria of Egypt [my sister]. My husband stays in the midst and I sit forsaken." He came, and found himself at a certain inn; they showed him great honour. He said, "How beautiful is this Acsania!" [denotes both inn and innkeeper] (Jesus) said to him, "Rabbi, she has narrow eyes." He said, "Wretch, dost thou emply thyself thus?" He sent out four hundred trumpets and excommunicated him. He [i.e., Jesus] came before him many times and said to him, "Receive me." But he would not notice him. One day he [i.e. R. Jeh.] was reciting the Shema, he [i.e. Jesus] came before him. He was minded to receive him, and made a sign to him. He [i.e. Jesus] thought that he repelled him. He went and hung up a tile and worshipped it. He [R. Jeh.] said to him, "Return." He replied, "Thus I have received from thee, that every one who sins and causes the multitude to sin, they give him not the chance to repent." And a teacher has said, "Jesus ['the Nazarene'--only in the Munich manuscript--ed.] practised magic and led astray and deceived Israel." (Herford translation)

Zindler comments: "The pericope of the excommunication of Jesus also has a non-Christian ancestry. In the tractate Hagigah ['Festival Offering'] of the Jerusalem Talmud we have the rootstock of Bavli's Sanhedrin efflorescence. In the ancestral version, however, we have an anonymous disciple instead of Jesus. Furthermore, it is not R. Jehoshua ben Perahjah who flees to Egypt, but rather Judah b. Tabbai--who also dates to around 100 BCE!" (The Jesus the Jews Never Knew, p. 251)

The text mentioned is (in Neusner's translation):

j. Hag. 2:2: Judah b. Tabbai was nasi. Simeon b. Shatah was head of the court. Some teach it vice versa. He who says Judah b. Tabbai was nasi finds support in the incident of Alexandria. The men of Jerusalem wanted to appoint Judah b. Tabbai as patriarch of Jerusalem. He fled and went to Alexandria. The men of Jerusalem would write, "From Jerusalem, the great, to Alexandria, the small: How long will my betrothed dwell with you, while I am sorrowful on his account?" He departed and arrived in a boat. He said, "Do you remember what Deborah, the mistress of the house who received us, lacked?" One of his disciples said to him, "Rabbi, her eye was blinking." He said to him, "Lo, two [sins] are against you: one that you suspected me [of looking at her], and one that you looked at her. Did I say that her appearance was handsome of sight? I only said [handsome] in [her] deed[s]!" He was angry with him, and he went away.

The b. Sotah 47a parallel can be read here:

Always let the left hand thrust away and the right hand draw near...

Note that the references to "Yeshu" have been expurgated (by Jews to deflect charges that the Talmud is anti-Christian), and are indicated in the footnotes.

best,
Peter Kirby

Secular Pinoy

Alas, which is why I have a hard time explaining the Talmud to my friends. They can't get past the sound of the word, which does sound like "tamud," and as dienekes has pointed out, it means human male ejaculate.

Doctor X

Hmmmmm . . .

"And the cock crowed three times. . . ."

--J.D.