stephan huller

Another example to consider are the Falashas. Obviously not Jewish by race but the result of a conversion early in the Common Era before the introduction of the Mishnah. The use of the Book of Jubilees and their strange calendar have always indicated a connection with Philo's Therapeutae (who celebrate a Sabbatical 'Sunday' after seven weeks). There are other examples. Why are there so many Jews with red-hair? Seriously. It must be the result of a large conversion of non-Semitic people. Patai did a study some years ago. There is no such thing as a Jewish 'race' or racial profile (as much as anti-Semites and the Jews themselves like to think). It would be very easy to demonstrate that most Jews have little connection with any Semitic ancestry (save for the sephardim). The Samaritans at one time possessed something resembling 'racial purity' but at the turn of the twentieth century when the nation had got down to about 123 souls there was a fear of permanent genetic damage because the gene pool was now too small. A few Russian Jewish women had children to replentish the stock of Samaritans (true story - my friend Benny is only 'half' Samaritan technically but is considered fully Samaritan by the community). They are now the fastest growing community in the world with a sixfold increase in a century - up to about 700 people. Many Palestinian Muslims interestingly still retain their Samaritan names (Tzedaka etc) even though they converted to Islam (some forcibly).

It should be remembered that Jewish proselytism WITHIN the Empire was widespread before the second century CE. The writings of Marqe also show that Samaritans proselytised (one of the most compelling reasons to date Marqe to the period before Antoninus Pius). The Marcionites are said to have directed their conversion efforts at Jewish proselytes so large was their numbers.

The bottom line is that the ban on Jewish proselytising began with Antoninus and before that there were long periods after the Jewish war of 66 - 70 CE where Jews couldn't practice circumcision which effectively achieved the same result. This makes the 'Pauline' position so interesting. The theological interest in abandoning of circumcision comes at a time which mirrors official Roman policy.

One more point - circumcision was NOT included in the ten utterances, a point raised by many Jewish converts to Christianity (including 'Aquila' and 'Agrippa' - same MS, different name).

andrewcriddle

There is also a discussion in Law Society and Authority in Late Antiquity . This suggests that although the involvement of Jews in persuading Christian women was an aggravating feature, the central issue was about people giving up their jobs without permission.

In the late Empire more and more people are not exactly slaves, (real slavery is dwindling), but cannot legally change their employment.

Andrew Criddle

semiopen

Steve,

As Arnoldo points out, dstinguishing between Jewish and Christian converts was not clear for a relatively long time.

My own comments were less deep, and I was mainly thinking that "throwing the Christians to the lions" didn't neccessarily mean Christians.

I agree with you in principal regarding the race issues except that there has been no "scientific" demonstration that a Jewish race doesn't exist by Patai or anyone else. Perhaps depending on how one technically defines race.

Ashkenazi IQ has not been sufficiently explained and so called Jewish DNA is also bothersome. Note the recent study that attempts to show Hitler was of Jewish ancestry. Personally I hope Patai was right, however nobody has made a convincing argument to support this.

One Saturday at my Shul there was an interesting exchange. A guy was reading something from Chabad about evolution and began laughing. He's an agricultural researcher and uses this in his work.

The Rabbi's son helpfully mentioned that it was ironic that "scientists" think that men come from monkeys when it is clear (from the Talmud) that monkeys were created from men at the tower of Babel.

Anyway, the "scientist" who understood evolution hedged when asked about the age of the world and was positive that Ashkenazi intelligence could have evolved in a few hundred years. I found this interesting that the guy's scientific credentials could completely disintegrate so quickly.

stephan huller

There's nothing worse than seeing what you describe. It makes you doubt any claim to intelligence on his part.

Just a quick note. The Jews had it bad between from the revolt (70 CE) until the Bar Khochba revolt (or maybe a little later - the end of the reign of Antoninus 161 CE). This was the golden age of the Samaritans and the early forms of Christianity (pre-Catholic).

The groups changed places from the end of the reign of Marcus Aurelius. The Samaritans and Christians get persecuted and the Judaism eventually adopts the Mishnah and ultimately the Talmud under Imperial pressure. This helps define the tradition and the Jews basically stay out of trouble for the third century.

The opposite was of course true with the Samaritans and 'heretical Christians' (who are somehow related to one another).

The persecution of Septimius Severus was only directed against Jewish proselytizing, a policy established since the time of Antoninus. There was nothing new here (other than the fact that Jews were seen to have been breaking the law). There was no confusion about the differences between Jews, Samaritans and Christians in the third century.