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Old 01-07-2010, 07:29 PM   #21
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My suspicion is that the pre-flood world was relatively flat.
I recently visited the Arizona Desert Museum, which is an arboratum, science museum, and zoo all rolled into one, and they had an interesting artifact there: A sphere of stone, about a foot in diameter. It appeared smooth, but to the touch one could tell that it had plenty of texture; minute ridges and fissures. The tag that went with this exhibit said that it represented the surface of the earth; not that it could be used as a map, but that the high points and low points were analogous in scale to the ball as are the high and low places on the surface of the earth.

So, feeling this object, I could see that the apologist notion that a flatter earth would allow for a biblical flooding seemed dubious.

That, and the fact that the continental plates are very ancient.
I don't think the Arizona Desert Museum has its facts straight. I remember that in the Ontario Science Museum in Toronto they had a similar display, only the sphere was covered with an aluminum coating, and very smooth to the touch. According to the write-up that went with it, this sphere was actually rougher than the surface of the Earth if shrunk to this size.

I did some calculations which seem to confirm this.

The difference between the highest point on Earth (Everest, 8,847 meters above sea level), and the lowest (the Mariana Trench, 11,033 meters below sea level) is 19,880 meters. The Earth's mean diameter is about 12,742,000 meters. Therefore the diameter of the Earth is about 641 times greater than the difference between its highest and lowest points. This translates to a difference of less than .02 inches on a sphere of one foot (and of course, this assumes they are right next to each other). According to a University of Manchester website, the fingers are only sensitive enough to be able to differentiate a distance between points three millimeters -- or .12 inches -- apart.
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Old 01-08-2010, 04:48 AM   #22
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The cubit as a unit of measure has had any number of meanings, anywhere from about 20 inches to perhaps as much as 4 feet.
True, various nations and governments had their own Standards for various forms of measurements. (and still do)
Some, such as the ancient Egyptian, have left us with many archaeological evidences, even the actual official measuring rods and volume vessels that were entombed along with the kings and officials that employed them.
Other, smaller 'nations' and governmental units often employed their own internal particular Standard Units of Measure.
This is a foremost concern to any culture or civilization, to facilitate, 'build', establish, and to maintain 'fair' trade, and for the governmental taxation that makes provision for the needs of the common wheal.
All practicing and functional governments operate on the basis of 'common standards', without which, all government fails, and confusion and anarchy prevails.
The practical needs of commerce and communications between various peoples and nations require that there be exchange rates between these various standards, whatever they might be.
When dealing with ancient writings, and measurements, whether Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek, Hittite, Hebrew, or other, it is necessary to understand that each was subject (submissive) to its own (internal), exacting Standards of measurement of weight, volume, and length. (as well as other legal (established by LAW) Standards and requirements regarding personal, business, ethical, and religious conduct)

The Hebrew cubit was, and_ IS_ , not of the same length as the Egyptian, Babylonian or other 'cubits', as were employed by other governments or peoples.
It was, and still_ IS_ however a very exacting, fixed, and established measuring unit, as was, and IS required by THE LAW.

The Hebrew peoples, once removed from their lands and unique national government, began to operate under laws and Standards set and employed by other, non-Hebrew governments where they came to dwell, and soon forgot or syncretized to the prevailing standards of foreigners.
It is an oft made mistake to confuse 'Jews', or being of the 'Jewish' nation or religion, with being a 'Hebrew';
What the 'Jews' wrote, what the 'Jews' say, what 'Jews' do, or what 'Jews' legislate, or how 'Jews' conduct themselves is of latter Judean/Jewish religious origin, not Hebrew.

My 'cubit', the cubit of The Hebrews, is an exact, precise, and fixed (-permanent-) everlasting, and absolutely invariable unit of measure.
As such it does not, and cannot, for its perfections sake, ever vary, not even by a billionth of an inch.

Howbeit, I employ interchangeably three separate 'cubit' measures, and three 'measuring reeds', all of which agree in one to 'mete the measure' with absolute exactitude to any length of mete-yard or of time.

Who will fathom what may be fathomed?
What questions have you as yet failed to ask of yourself?
or of others?

Seek, and you shall find. Ask, and you shall be given;
And that in good measure.

"For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel...

For there is a time there for every purpose and for every work. "

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Old 01-08-2010, 05:49 AM   #23
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My suspicion is that the pre-flood world was relatively flat.

Yes, to Bronze age sheep herders, who made the stories, the world was flat small and supported by four pillars to raise it out of the oceans that were below, around and above them. Sounds like Donald Rumsfeld.

Is there any scholarship on the Hebrew of Genesis 7:20 that would clarify if the cubits were extra cubits, or the total height of the water at its highest? Biblegateway's list of translations has most translations saying above the mountains (extra cubits, as it were). So, for inerrantists, the world was a uniform sphere with water 20 - 60 feet above Everest? Noah was riding pretty high!


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Old 01-08-2010, 07:24 AM   #24
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Am I the only one who's having trouble following this discussion?
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:03 AM   #25
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I have split off some of the more imaginative posts (all of Chili's) here.

Some things are not meant to be understood.
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