Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vinnie · 11-20-2003, 08:40 PM

http://www.accessnorthga.com/news/ap...y.asp?ID=24938

Link posted to X-Talk by Steven Goranson with the following commentary:

P.S. This Simeon may be, as several have written, identical with the Simon in
Josephus War 2.111-3 [7.3] and Antiquities 17.345-8 [13.3]. (Cf also Lk 2:25
and inscription use of dikaios and eusebhes with Josephus on Essenes' oath
(War 2.139 [8.7]) and on John the Baptist preaching (Antiquities 18.117
[5.2]). On LK/Acts eulabhs see Pixner in Bagatti FS.

Vinnie

Steven Carr · 11-20-2003, 10:16 PM

The article says 'The Bible says James was hurled off the Jewish Temple, bludgeoned to death in the Kidron Valley below and buried nearby. '

Is this an example of the accuracy of the piece?

Celsus · 11-20-2003, 10:42 PM

Joe Zias' credentials needn't be questioned at this point--I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt, especially if the find is in situ. The tradition of James being hurled from the temple is recorded in Hegesippus (quoted by various early church writers) I think. Eisenman tries to tie it in with Paul's conflict with James, but I misremember exactly how at this point. He does see James as a High Priest in Jerusalem (oh what fun!).

Joel

Vinnie · 11-20-2003, 11:10 PM

Two Greek inscriptions were found on the badly scarred fa�ade of a funeral monument.

Toto · 11-20-2003, 11:58 PM

This is fourth century - not really evidence of anything that exciting.

Quote:

The Zachariah and Simon inscriptions were carved around the 4th century, at a time when Byzantine Christians were searching the Holy Land for sacred sites linked to the Bible and marked them, often relying on local lore.

. . .

The inscription reads: The tomb of Simeon who was a very just man and a very devoted old (person) and waiting for the consolation of the people.

The passage describing Simon is identical to that in a 4th century version of the Bible, the Codex Sinaiticus, which was later revised extensively.

Artemus · 11-21-2003, 05:20 AM

What is this section trying to say?

Quote:

However, the inscription does back up what until now were scant references to a Byzantine-era belief that three biblical figures _ Simon; Zachariah, father of John the Baptist; and James, brother of Jesus _ shared the same tomb.

Are they saying that it helps confirm that it was believed in the Byzantine era, or that it helps confirm that the three actually were buried together? The latter is quite a stretch from a fourth century find.

butswana · 11-21-2003, 12:21 PM

So, I guess this PROVES the bible is true?

Toto · 11-21-2003, 12:25 PM

It shows that in the fourth century, some of Constantine and Helen's entourage came through Palestine and were told that the three famous Biblical era guys were buried in one tomb - but it doesn't push that belief back to an early time.

But Christians are going to argue (as they have here) that there was some validity to those 4th c. rumors.

11-20-2003, 08:40 PM	#1
Vinnie Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Waterbury, Ct, Usa Posts: 6,523	Archaeologist discovers parts of New Testament verse on funeral monument http://www.accessnorthga.com/news/ap...y.asp?ID=24938 Link posted to X-Talk by Steven Goranson with the following commentary: P.S. This Simeon may be, as several have written, identical with the Simon in Josephus War 2.111-3 [7.3] and Antiquities 17.345-8 [13.3]. (Cf also Lk 2:25 and inscription use of dikaios and eusebhes with Josephus on Essenes' oath (War 2.139 [8.7]) and on John the Baptist preaching (Antiquities 18.117 [5.2]). On LK/Acts eulabhs see Pixner in Bagatti FS. Vinnie

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11-20-2003, 10:16 PM	#2
Steven Carr Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: England Posts: 5,629	The article says 'The Bible says James was hurled off the Jewish Temple, bludgeoned to death in the Kidron Valley below and buried nearby. ' Is this an example of the accuracy of the piece?

11-20-2003, 10:42 PM	#3
Celsus Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Singapore Posts: 2,875	Joe Zias' credentials needn't be questioned at this point--I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt, especially if the find is in situ. The tradition of James being hurled from the temple is recorded in Hegesippus (quoted by various early church writers) I think. Eisenman tries to tie it in with Paul's conflict with James, but I misremember exactly how at this point. He does see James as a High Priest in Jerusalem (oh what fun!). Joel

11-20-2003, 11:10 PM	#4
Vinnie Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Waterbury, Ct, Usa Posts: 6,523	Two Greek inscriptions were found on the badly scarred fa�ade of a funeral monument.

11-21-2003, 12:21 PM	#7
butswana Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,804	So, I guess this PROVES the bible is true?

11-21-2003, 12:25 PM	#8
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	It shows that in the fourth century, some of Constantine and Helen's entourage came through Palestine and were told that the three famous Biblical era guys were buried in one tomb - but it doesn't push that belief back to an early time. But Christians are going to argue (as they have here) that there was some validity to those 4th c. rumors.

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