FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-08-2009, 06:19 AM   #1
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Space Station 33
Posts: 2,543
Default Sayings of Jesus

I've heard it mentioned that the total sayings of Jesus would barely fill 2 or 3 pages. Is this a correct assessment? Doesn't that seem like a really low total considering the length of his ministry and his love of lecturing?
xaxxat is offline  
Old 07-08-2009, 07:36 AM   #2
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Southwest USA
Posts: 4,093
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xaxxat View Post
I've heard it mentioned that the total sayings of Jesus would barely fill 2 or 3 pages. Is this a correct assessment? Doesn't that seem like a really low total considering the length of his ministry and his love of lecturing?
You are looking at the sayings of Jesus that were chosen for the NT. The Gospel of Thomas is considered to be a compilation of sayings of Jesus, and it is more than a few pages.

Anyways there were many purported sayings of Jesus that were not considered suitable for the Christian mantra in the 4th c.
Tristan Scott is offline  
Old 07-08-2009, 07:39 AM   #3
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 2,608
Default

Were his sayings those of his own or did he reflect on those of past prophets? My opinion from reading is that he didn't say anything that hadn't already been said. His gloom and doom forecasts for the Jews was the same propaganda given by prophets before him. Except for his declaring himself god in the flesh. This however could be seen as his being the mouth of god and the same as given prophets before him. All priests were "the mouth of god" in their speaking the things of God, and so being were god in the flesh of Jews.
storytime is offline  
Old 07-08-2009, 08:32 AM   #4
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Southwest USA
Posts: 4,093
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by storytime View Post
Were his sayings those of his own or did he reflect on those of past prophets? My opinion from reading is that he didn't say anything that hadn't already been said. His gloom and doom forecasts for the Jews was the same propaganda given by prophets before him. Except for his declaring himself god in the flesh. This however could be seen as his being the mouth of god and the same as given prophets before him. All priests were "the mouth of god" in their speaking the things of God, and so being were god in the flesh of Jews.
Many of the sayings attributed to Jesus were from others. His turn the other cheek saying was from Hillel, in fact Jesus really appears to be parroting much of Hillel's teachings.

I guess I missed the saying where Jesus declared himself "god in the flesh". Do you have a cite?
Tristan Scott is offline  
Old 07-08-2009, 09:35 AM   #5
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 2,608
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristan Scott View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by storytime View Post
Were his sayings those of his own or did he reflect on those of past prophets? My opinion from reading is that he didn't say anything that hadn't already been said. His gloom and doom forecasts for the Jews was the same propaganda given by prophets before him. Except for his declaring himself god in the flesh. This however could be seen as his being the mouth of god and the same as given prophets before him. All priests were "the mouth of god" in their speaking the things of God, and so being were god in the flesh of Jews.
Many of the sayings attributed to Jesus were from others. His turn the other cheek saying was from Hillel, in fact Jesus really appears to be parroting much of Hillel's teachings.

I guess I missed the saying where Jesus declared himself "god in the flesh". Do you have a cite?

The saying "I in He and He in me", is that of "God in the flesh." The inference was "the words" by which the prophet was "the mouth" of God. (Malachi)

"Son of God" might also be seen to hold authority as in the mouth of the prophet. And all males as sons of Jacob were sons of God.
storytime is offline  
Old 07-08-2009, 09:56 AM   #6
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 354
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristan Scott View Post
Many of the sayings attributed to Jesus were from others. His turn the other cheek saying was from Hillel,
Really? Where does Hillel say anything of the sort?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristan Scott View Post
in fact Jesus really appears to be parroting much of Hillel's teachings.
There are some quotes which are kind of similar, but their outlook wasn't really very alike. Jesus almost certainly regarded Hillel as a play-actor. This may seem harsh, but Jesus was pretty harsh about that sort of thing.

Peter.
Petergdi is offline  
Old 07-08-2009, 10:04 AM   #7
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xaxxat View Post
I've heard it mentioned that the total sayings of Jesus would barely fill 2 or 3 pages. Is this a correct assessment? Doesn't that seem like a really low total considering the length of his ministry and his love of lecturing?
Passing on third hand information like this can create problems. I suspect that the origin of this claim is the conclusion by the Jesus Seminar that only 18% of the words attributed to Jesus are authentic to Jesus.

We only know about what Jesus is alleged to have said, or the (short) length of his ministry, or his love of lecturing, from the gospels, which are not reliable sources of information in any case.

Does this mean that Jesus didn't say a lot, or that what he said was not memorable and most of it is lost to history? Or that the gospel writers did not construct a coherent narrative?
Toto is offline  
Old 07-08-2009, 10:24 AM   #8
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 5,679
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petergdi View Post
There are some quotes which are kind of similar, but their outlook wasn't really very alike. Jesus almost certainly regarded Hillel as a play-actor. This may seem harsh, but Jesus was pretty harsh about that sort of thing.
I wish there were a way to make this comment a favorite. Outstanding!:thumbs:
No Robots is offline  
Old 07-08-2009, 10:30 AM   #9
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,234
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by No Robots View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petergdi View Post
There are some quotes which are kind of similar, but their outlook wasn't really very alike. Jesus almost certainly regarded Hillel as a play-actor. This may seem harsh, but Jesus was pretty harsh about that sort of thing.
I wish there were a way to make this comment a favorite. Outstanding!:thumbs:
Jesus was also a xenophobe. He was also completely ignorant about fig trees in winter.

--cosmic wisdom? HAH! NB
Nero's Boot is offline  
Old 07-08-2009, 12:15 PM   #10
Contributor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Falls Creek, Oz.
Posts: 11,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by xaxxat View Post
Doesn't that seem like a really low total considering the length of his ministry and his love of lecturing?
We only know about what Jesus is alleged to have said, or the (short) length of his ministry, or his love of lecturing, from the gospels, which are not reliable sources of information in any case.
In addition to the canonical gospels there are located within the new testament apocryphal gospels, acts, correspondence, etc a further series of sayings of Jesus, such as:
"Why are you asking me"?
mountainman is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:33 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.