Amaleq13

Crud, I was hoping for some sort of treatise on demons.

DCHindley

According to D. C. Duling, in the commentary to his translation of the Testament of Solomon (in volume one of The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha (or via: amazon.co.uk) ed by James H. Charlesworth):

"In this passage [Ant 8.2.5], the allusions are clearly to 1 Kings 4:29-34 ... again. ... Solomon is thus said to have composed "incantations" ... and exorcistic formulas by which one can drive out the demons. In addition, the ring is introduced, though it is really the root under the seal of the ring by which Eleazar performs the exorcism. Finally, Solomon's wisdom and greatness are so acknowledged that speaking his name and reciting his incantations help bring about the exorcism. All of this is an "art" ([TECNH]) employed by the ancient physician or magician."

That passage in 1 Kings 4:29-34 goes as follows:

"29 And God gave Solomon wisdom and understanding beyond measure, and largeness of mind like the sand on the seashore, 30 so that Solomon's wisdom surpassed the wisdom of all the people of the east, and all the wisdom of Egypt. 31 For he was wiser than all other men, wiser than Ethan the Ezrahite, and Heman, Calcol, and Darda, the sons of Mahol; and his fame was in all the nations round about. 32 He also uttered three thousand proverbs; and his songs were a thousand and five. 33 He spoke of trees, from the cedar that is in Lebanon to the hyssop that grows out of the wall; he spoke also of beasts, and of birds, and of reptiles, and of fish. 34 And men came from all peoples to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and from all the kings of the earth, who had heard of his wisdom.

FWIW, the Testament of Solomon is essentially a story about how Solomon, by means of a magical ring, got a number of powerful demons to reveal the commands by which they can be forced to do a man's bidding, and how he used this knowledge to force them to build his temple. Very interesting reading.

DCH

Clivedurdle

The idea of one god in Judaism and xianity seems to be directly related.

If your mind set is that there are loads of gods and demons, exorcism is only one of many magical tools to sort out issues.

Once you have developed a them and us mentality with a chief god, exorcism becomes a critical tool to divide the world between good and evil.


Thus exorcism is a defining feature of xianity, with its related tools of heresy and inquisition and not suffering witches to live.

Judaism does not seem to been ever that fussed about demons.

And seriously, if we want to find a historical Jesus, I would look here - this is a major change of thinking, from a ragbag of ideas to a clear good and evil. This is the sort of idea that is clearly the invention of one mind - it may track back to Jesus unless it can be seen elsewhere earlier.

Zarathustra?

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=z...wQ2U0xGs&hl=en

Clivedurdle

And baptism therefore also becomes a completely necessary and logical part of the structure.

Again, look here for evidence of Jesus - were these ideas introduced by one person?

Clivedurdle

Let's try putting the pieces of this jigsaw together differently.

Lucian calls this group an oriental cult.

Our earliest evidence has clear links to Jesus and fish, the vulva symbol is common, burials and buildings face East, its writings - extant by end of second century - possibly earlier talk of virgin births and resurrections.

It is an apocalyptic cult - Revelation.

Baptism is critical, with a fascinating twist - baptism in the holy spirit - again evidenced in a probably early work - Mark.

Exorcism is a critical theme in all the writings.

Next question, what explanations are there for these particular facts? A founder figure, probably mad with bad breath, normal interactions and co-evolution of existing ideas, that as with the dinosaurs, evolves a monster, other explanations?

Look at the classic church structure - as at Piza, Florence etc - the baptistry, the body of the church, the campanile.

Amaleq13

Thanks. A novel I read some time ago incorporated this legend but didn't indicate the source and I didn't think it was in the Bible.

Maybe I haven't entirely woken up yet but I don't understand why you put that phrase in bold.

Solitary Man

For Solomonic exorcism, you might want to check out Scott T. Carroll, "The "Apocalypse of Adam" and Pre-Christian Gnosticism," Vigiliae Christianae, Vol. 44, No. 3 (Sep., 1990), pp. 263-279.

Clivedurdle

Looking more closely at the relationship between exorcism and baptism might help make more sense of an incident on the River Jordan!

For example, isn't there some idea that evil spirits do not like getting wet, so baptism with the added ingredient of an invocation would not only wash your sins away but also your evil spirits.

We are looking at all the elements here - water, air, earth - the human - dust to dust - and fire - the holy spirit - burning bush tongues of fire. So Mark is describing a ritual at a holy place - Jordan, involving transformation and turning around of the elements - a universal alchemic experiment!

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07432a.htm

DCHindley

I guess that was the passage that got folk to think Solomon knew about such things as herbs and roots, which are very much a part of ancient magic.

DCH

Solo

While there was practice of exorcism in the pagan world (and samples of it were cited here) it appears that the exorcist "power" of Jesus was of a different kind. Mark links the exorcist deeds to apocalyptic psychomachy, in which Jesus effects the works of God's Spirit over the demonic power of Satan. The demons "know" the name of God's power and are overpowered by it, in the coming of God's kingdom. This would be something quite apart from the professional approach of Apollonius or Josephus' Eleazar.

At any rate, for very useful reviews of the apocalyptic setting for Jesus' exorcisms, you might want to see James D.G. Dunn, Jesus and the Spirit (or via: amazon.co.uk)and Stevan L. Davies, Jesus the Healer. (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Jiri