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Old 06-15-2007, 05:50 AM   #1
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Default James 4:5 translation question

KJV:

Quote:
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
NKJV:

Quote:
Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"?
NLT:

Quote:
What do you think the Scriptures mean when they say that the Holy Spirit, whom God has placed within us, jealously longs for us to be faithful?
NASB:

Quote:
Or do you think that the Scripture speaks to no purpose: "He jealously desires the Spirit which He has made to dwell in us"?
==============================================

Normally I use the KJV and go to other versions if I'm having a hard time understanding a verse(passage).

My wife brought this one to my attention last night and at first blush it seems to me that the KJV translations says something completely different than the other translations.

Can someone comment if it is just a difficulty with the King's english, was the KJV translated improperly, or are the other translation incorrect?
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Old 06-15-2007, 06:44 AM   #2
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Here is what the Bauer-Danker-Arndt-Gingrinch lexicon has to say about this verse (p. 377 under the word ἐπιποθέω):
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDAG
Js 4:5 is difficult because of the problem posed by uncertainty in the tradition concerning the correct reading of the verb: κατοικίζω text (causative) and κατοικέω v.l. (intr.), but the mng. of the verb is clear; if κατῴκισεν is read, one can render either the spirit that (God) has caused to dwell in us yearns jealously or (God) yearns jealously over the spirit that he has put in us; if κατῴκησεν the spirit that has taken up abode in us yearns jealously. See ...
Part of the difference between the (N)KJV and the others is in the text. The two different verbs κατῴκισεν and κατῴκησεν sound the same in Byzantine (and modern) Greek. The NKJV translates the same text as the KJV, so its translational differences are due to a better rendering (into modern English) of ἐπιποθεῖ as "yearns" instead of "lusteth." I don't know whether "to lust" had a more positive meaning back in 1611 than it does today.

Stephen
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Old 06-15-2007, 06:47 AM   #3
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Thanks S.C! :notworthy:
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Old 06-15-2007, 08:02 AM   #4
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But what does the verse mean?

First, it points to "Scripture." The NASB seems to link this to Num 23:19, but I find it hard to see any relevance there. Does anyone have any idea which scripture is meant?

As for the verse itself, apparently either (1) the spirit yearns jealously for something unspecified, or (2) god yearns jealously over it. In case of (1), what does the spirit yearn for, assuming the greek that is translated as "yearn" is at least implicitly transitive--earthly pleasures, going by the context? if it is intransitive, what is the meaning of intransitive yearning? In case of (2), where god is doing the yearning, what does it mean that god yearns over the spirit? That he keeps a close eye on it, that it is important to him? If so, how does that relate to the context, other than as a general admonition?

Gerard Stafleu
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Old 06-15-2007, 08:59 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gstafleu View Post
But what does the verse mean?

First, it points to "Scripture." The NASB seems to link this to Num 23:19, but I find it hard to see any relevance there. Does anyone have any idea which scripture is meant?
I think the NASB might have intended a link to Num 22:19(-20).

Quote:
As for the verse itself, apparently either (1) the spirit yearns jealously for something unspecified, or (2) god yearns jealously over it. In case of (1), what does the spirit yearn for, assuming the greek that is translated as "yearn" is at least implicitly transitive--earthly pleasures, going by the context? if it is intransitive, what is the meaning of intransitive yearning? In case of (2), where god is doing the yearning, what does it mean that god yearns over the spirit? That he keeps a close eye on it, that it is important to him? If so, how does that relate to the context, other than as a general admonition?

Gerard Stafleu
I think the meaning comes through whatever grammatical or semantic challenges: (1) that "something unspecified" would be YHWH, (2) God would jealously guard the "spirit" for himself.

The cognitive context here is the familiar "can't serve two masters". The passage exhorts the believer to renounce worldly desires as precondition to being nearer to God.

Jiri
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Old 06-15-2007, 09:39 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Solo View Post
I think the NASB might have intended a link to Num 22:19(-20).
I can't say I see that as a great improvement...

Quote:
I think the meaning comes through whatever grammatical or semantic challenges: (1) that "something unspecified" would be YHWH, (2) God would jealously guard the "spirit" for himself.
So we have some ultra-economical use of language here, and the thing really means "The spirit that god has placed within us, and over which her carefully watches, yearns passionately for that god"? I don't know. If the spirit is so enthusiastic to do the right thing, why do we still succumb to earthly pleasures--generalized kata sarka badness?
Quote:
The cognitive context here is the familiar "can't serve two masters". The passage exhorts the believer to renounce worldly desires as precondition to being nearer to God.
The passage as a whole is pretty clear, the verse we are talking about seems rather confusatory, though.

Gerard Stafleu
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