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Old 11-27-2008, 09:35 AM   #1
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Default What is the New Testament?

How much can the New Testament be seen as one work, yes from disparate sources, but consciously put together and edited into a whole?
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Old 11-27-2008, 02:07 PM   #2
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Default edited by a single redactor

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They show the work of a single redactor who produced the canonical edition of the New Testament as part of a total Christian scripture.
from here
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Old 11-27-2008, 10:40 PM   #3
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A single editor with the intention of creating a single coherent work would surely have done a better job of smoothing out the differences and inconsistencies.

The NT looks more like a committee report that tries to accommodate a variety of factions.
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Old 11-28-2008, 04:40 AM   #4
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Why would there have been a need for a new testament[testimony] from a Jewish sage/prophet? Did Jewish rabbi's at the time agree to the new testament as a valid resource to their tradition in laws and covenants?
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Old 11-28-2008, 05:28 AM   #5
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Why would there have been a need for a new testament[testimony] from a Jewish sage/prophet?
Dunno if there was a "need" for a new covenant (testament), but I believe that Jews in general had been expecting a savior ever since the Babylonian capture. And that trying to identify him/it was a big hit for Jewish writers in the centuries leading up to the turn of the era.

Jeremiah, chapter 31, prophesises about a "new testament" (covenant) with the laws "written on the hearts of men":
Quote:
31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,"
declares the LORD.

33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
For comparison, IIRC, the followers of the Teacher of Righteousness, in the Dead Sea Scrolls, call themselves "the men of the new testament".
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Old 11-28-2008, 05:53 AM   #6
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Default followers of the "teacher of righteousness"

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Originally Posted by Cesc
the followers of the Teacher of Righteousness, in the Dead Sea Scrolls, call themselves "the men of the new testament".
here is a summary of the "Teacher of Righteousness". The article clarifies that there exists no clear consensus on his identity, with claims favoring figures of history from ~~200BCE at the earliest, to John the Baptist at the latest. No one identifies Iesous of Nazareth as this teacher.
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Old 11-28-2008, 06:17 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Cesc
the followers of the Teacher of Righteousness, in the Dead Sea Scrolls, call themselves "the men of the new testament".
here is a summary of the "Teacher of Righteousness". ... No one identifies Iesous of Nazareth as this teacher.
I know. Except John Allegro and some Swedish professor and some others, I think. At least as the basis for the Jesus of Nazareth character.
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:12 AM   #8
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If you mean Ellegard that technically is not Jesus as he is commonly understood as he pushes Jesus back to 100 BCE.
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by storytime View Post
Why would there have been a need for a new testament[testimony] from a Jewish sage/prophet?
Dunno if there was a "need" for a new covenant (testament), but I believe that Jews in general had been expecting a savior ever since the Babylonian capture. And that trying to identify him/it was a big hit for Jewish writers in the centuries leading up to the turn of the era.

Jeremiah, chapter 31, prophesises about a "new testament" (covenant) with the laws "written on the hearts of men":
Quote:
31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,"
declares the LORD.

33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
For comparison, IIRC, the followers of the Teacher of Righteousness, in the Dead Sea Scrolls, call themselves "the men of the new testament".

On coming out of Egypt they had the covenant of circumcision. Moses would supply the laws that would be written in their hearts and minds which provided the elements for a new covenant.

In the story, Jesus doesn't make a new covenant with uncircumcised and lawless Gentiles. He recruited people into his way, truth and life of Judaism. So I don't see any new covenant at all. Maybe instead of the Gentiles via Constantine/Eusebius having declared a new testament, they should have declared a new sect of God fearers within Judaism and which would have excluded Gentiles. But they needed a base, something to work their magic from, so they decided to have non Jews remain connected to Judaism via the character Paul in Pauls gospel.

If at Nicaea there were 318 bishops contributing to the whole book, (were they all Gentile?) and one man credited with its being written as valid precepts, then what can we conclude from that arrangement? It was their point of view from their authority to declare it? Where were the Jewish rabbi's and did they agree? I can't seem to find anything on what the rabbi's might have said on the matter.
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Old 11-28-2008, 01:53 PM   #10
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In the story, Jesus doesn't make a new covenant with uncircumcised and lawless Gentiles.
True, not as such.
The Holy Spirit kinda does, though, in Acts. Not in those words, of course.
Anyway, early Christians, at any time, had great Scriptural support for including Gentiles, such as Isaiah's universal God and 'Servant of the Lord' (42:1, 42:4, 49:6, etc.)


When was the title "New Testament" first applied to Christian writings?
And did 'the Scriptures' first recieve the name "Old Testament" at that same time?

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Originally Posted by Clivedurdle View Post
If you mean Ellegard that technically is not Jesus as he is commonly understood as he pushes Jesus back to 100 BCE.
Yes, I was thinking of Ellegaard. If Ellegaard means that the Teacher, 100 BCE, is the historical basis for the Jesus character we know, then I would say yes, that would be "Jesus" of the NT. (Perhaps not as he is "commonly understood", whatever that means)
Allegro has the Teacher crucified in 88 BCE.
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