amir

I thought "Elim" was the plural for "god" - the singular being "El"

Diogenes the Cynic

You could be right. You're right about El being singular noun, at least (which is a different issue from Elohim as a proper NAME. A cat can be named "socks" for instance, but "sock" is still the singular noun). I haven't really studied Hebrew so I can't be trusted to get spellings right. I'm much better with Greek and Latin.

Sheshbazzar

The form "Elim" is very rare within the Scriptures, whereas the forms "Elohim" and "El" predominate and are often used interchangeably, with YHWH being referred to as both "The El" and "The Elohim" without any distinction of singular/plural other than that being supplied by the context, i.e.; "He" and "Him" as singular, even when occurring with "Elohim", and "Us", "Our" and "They" as plurals.
Also noteworthy are other forms of "El" such as "el'ee'leem" (null-"els", null-gods, false-"els", false-gods) and "Ha'Elo'huth" a collective term for the multiple facets of "Ha'Elohim, the Hebrew rendering of "The Godhead" in my Hebrew language NT.

Loomis

I’m sorry. I was just in a bitchy mood. I apologize. I don’t really disagree with anything you said - I just think the part where you point out that elohim is a plural noun with a singular verb is a little boring.

I guess I’m frustrated. :frown:

Loomis

Tell us your thoughts on Psalm 82:1
Do you think the author of this verse ever heard of YHWH?

In this verse is El supposed to be YHWH?

Do you think this verse means, "YHWH stands in the assembly of YHWH?"


All the best,

Loomis

Loomis

Where?

Loomis

I count one Elohim.

The US and OUR appear to be references to the “winds/ messengers” and “flaming attendants” over in Psalm 104:4. I guess you could argue that these messengers and attendants were lesser gods. That's fine with me. You're the monotheist.

Streamwinner

Yo, yo, Elohim, with the rhyme scheme
and when the lyrics leave the mouth they look like light beams
with wings attached to the mic I say fly rhymes
read between the lines [Aire Vast lines]
the beat be tryin' to sex me and marry me
I'm talking white picket fence and a family [of Vasts]
they stand behind me, and reflect reality
stage one- master of ceremonies
and when the seven magnificent walked in
raisin' hell to lower heaven
we explored all the crevices
brothers is mad I wear knowledge like a third degree, burn,
light the match, put it to the rhyme book, make sure it all fits in the urn
the cream of life, beats and rhymes are butter
that in which I churn

-Vast Aire (Cannibal Ox) - Stress Rap

spin

While we are dealing with the assembly, we should keep in mind the well-known passage, Deut 32:8-9.
The reading of "Elohim" is from the earliest copy of the text from Qumran. The traditional reading from the MT is "sons of Israel". However, this makes little sense for we are dealing with all the nations of the world at the time, not a group of twelve nations. Tov sees "sons of Israel" as an "anti-polytheistic alteration". Elyon, usually a title for El, gives out the nations, each nation to a son of Elohim and YHWH's nation is Jacob, obviously YHWH being such a son. This suggests an assembly of the sons of El among whom we find YHWH. Isn't this the same situation as we find in Ps 82?


spin

Sheshbazzar

This subject has been discussed extensively in previous threads, briefly my position remains, The "Elohim" first referred to in Psalm 82 is YHWH Elohim.
"The assembly of El", is comprised of His saints, the believers, the adherents of YHWH Elohim, whom are the "elohim", amongst whom YHWH Elohim renders His judgment.
The Messiah quotes from this very Psalm in rebuking the Jews when they attempt to charge Him with blasphemy;

Indicating that His understanding, and also the understanding of His contemporaries and adversaries was that in this saying the "elohim" being spoken of are men, and therefore that He was well within Scriptural rights to lay claim to being "elohim", and "judgment must begin at the house of Elohim:" 1 Peter 4:17, for He, YHWH, "shall judge His people." Psalm 50:4
Yes, but it would not make any significant difference to our faith if the saying was borrowed or appropriated from an older or "outside" source, after all, The Scriptures contain much more information on YHWH and His will, than any one man's own "creative" reinterpretations of some obscure verses to be found within the Books.
Our people today, (that is, the devotees of YAH-Yahweh, YHWH) still engage in borrowing songs, sayings, and articles from "outside" sources and adapting them to our own usages, many times things are sang, or recited, that reflect a different tradition than that which we actually serve, yet living under a conviction of His infallible grace, and acknowledgment of our all to human failings and weaknesses, we trust in YHWH our Elohim to know the intentions of our hearts.


Certainly, for all those other "El's" are only the "el'ee'leem", powerless imaginary forces, "null-gods" fabricated with wood, stone, metal, and of men's imaginations.

The verse is worded as it is, and we are pleased with it as it is worded;
We are confident that YHWH is standing in The Assembly of YHWH, else we would no longer be assembling for the sake of His Holy Name.