Loomis

Not at all?

Oh come on!

At least “just a little bit.” After all, the author has the teacher saying, “I will follow you.” So he certainly could have had the Jesus character reply, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but I have no place to lay my head.”

All the best,

Loomis

Loomis

Imagine that the Jesus character is a Buddhist missionary named Kwai Chang Caine, and that Kwai Chang Caine is trying to recruit the ‘teacher of the law’ to give up his possesions and follow the teachings of Gautama Buddha:

In this example I substituted Jesus with Kwai Chang Caine and the son of Man (a Hebrew construct) with the awakened one (a Buddhist construct).

Everyone who remembers the TV series Kung Fu knows what I am talking about. David Carradine’s character was a Shaolin monk. He might have been "a buddha," but he never thought he was Gautama Buddha.

Same deal in Matthew 8:19-20. The son of man was not necessarily Jesus. The author was non-committal because he wanted to attract a larger audience and instill an element of mystery.

All the best,

Loomis

Diogenes the Cynic

There's also the possibility that the original SOM sayings were intended to be generic references to humanity as a whole since that IS what the phrase originally meant in Hebrew/Aramaic idiom. Matthew 18:19-20 would make perfect sense if you substitue "human beings" or "mankind" for "Son of Man."

Even if Jesus had intended to call himself the SOM and even if he intended it as a deliberate allusion to the Messiah via Daniel, that still would not be a claim to Godhood since the Messiah wasn't God.

aa5874

An example which I think should be helpful is Matthew 12:1-8, 'At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of the corn, and to eat.
But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
But he said unto them,.........'For the Son of man is Lord, even on the sabbath day.

From my observation, the reason why the authors of the Jesus stories made him say he was the Son of Man, its because if he only said he was the Son of God, the Jews would probably have killed him on the spot, like they did to other fraudsters.

If you read the so-called trial of Jesus, the Pharisees were 'dying' to hear the blasphemous words from Jesus, but Jesus, incredibly, according to Matthew and Luke never ever identified himself as the Son of God.

It is amazing that no-one alive, except his disciples, knew that Jesus was the Son of God, and the author of John went to another extreme, John claims the disciples did not even know that Jesus was to be resurrected. (See John 20:9)

Loomis

How come the Jesus character never said, “I am the son of man?”

And even if he did, wouldn’t that contradict, “I am the son of God?”

I think the author wanted it to be a spooky mystery. A brainteaser. The author was no fool; he knew that there would be gullible readers who would use their powerful imaginations to invent their own personal version of “Jesus.”

It would appeal to a wider audience. :wave:


All the best,

Loomis

Loomis

No less amazing is Samantha Stephens. No mortal knew that she was a witch except for her husband Darrin.

All the best,

Loomis

Loomis

All the best,

Loomis

Amaleq13

Do you really need to ask why a character apparently preferring to use an indirect self-reference would refrain from negating it in the same sentence?

Only if it is impossible to be both a human and the son of a deity. Since magic greatly diminishes what is impossible, Christians can reply "No" to your question.

I wonder if the author's use of this phrase indicates acknowledgement that the saying is not a direct quote but what the author believes Jesus would have or probably did say?

Whether you agree with his conclusions or not, this article by Walter Wink provides some relevant information as it explores use of the phrase.

aa5874

You mean Samantha Stephens told her husband she was a witch, but was she, really? Or was she a fraud like Jesus.

aa5874

Who in the world is Samntha Stephens? And if she was a real witch, how come only her husband knew? Didn't she get any witchcraft assigments?