Doctor X

Amos:

I do not think this will work. If the same writer, why could he not agree on a "birthdate"--Lk and Mt puts it ten years appart. Why would he correct his own text--differently? Why would he mix up the genealogies? Why would he "forget" a resurrection in Mk and "remember" it in Lk and Mt? Why would Judas hang himself in one . . . and explode in the other?

These are the many differences. Furthermore, the author of "Lk-Acts" specifically states he is not a witness--Mt, Mk, and even Jn do not claim to be witnesses.

In otherwords, with all due respect, Amos you are casting away a few hundred years of NT scholarship.

Thus, Jn is not, ". . . from the Catholic side because it was soon to become the basis for Catholicism." His claim that the saved are inherently saved runs against the Catholic dogma . . . particularly since "Catholic" did not exist yet.

So much of the middle of your post consists of your belief--which is fine--but it does not really come from the texts. Much like in the thread where you ask about the Documentary Hypothesis:

with all due respect, unless you have experience with the language, the sources, and the times, you are severly limited. Return to the text above, you made claims based on an eroneous translation. With all due respect, you would do well to consider what the scholars say. You do not have to just swallow what they say, but you would understand why what you wrote about a single author proves "unique" to write the least.

Well it explains why such hostility towards the disciples--in Mk, Junior has to repeat the "loaves 'n fishies" miracle and they still cannot figure things out. Why did Mt and Lk rewrite Mk . . . obviously, his text was not good enough for their purposes.

Return to Jn--the Synopic Gospels take care of J the B [John the Baptist.--Ed.] pretty quickly. Jn spends quite a bit of papyrus having J the B, subordinate himself to Junior. Furthermore, he lets everyone know that any of his followers who do not subordinate themselves are wrong.

Did Jn have "problems" with a J the B group that Mk and the rest did not?

Anyways, I do not think I can go much further because I do not agree with your basic premise--that the texts were all written by the same person.

--J.D.

Amos

Hi again Doctor X and here I would say that I can explain those problem areas that I am familiar with and if there is any that I cannot explain it is not the text but my comprehension of the text that would be wrong.

For example, the genealogy differences are there to show that Catholicism is a break from Judiasm and a new religion that finds its origen not in the root of Judasim but through Mary (who is Gods womb in Joseph) to the son of Adam right back to the son of God.

Judas is the personification of Judaism which exploded when realization occured and he hung himself (probably in Matthew) when religion had served its purpose-- which is (and always was) the betrayal of the ego in effort to set free the true identity of man.

Notice that Mt. was recorded while Lk was inspired after Jesus-nee Joseph was enlightened. Matthew always gives the name of the ego consciousness (here Joseph) while Luke gives the name of the blessed son identity with Joseph being the "supposed" father. Point here is that God is the father because it happened to Joseph.

Oh for sure, Catholicism did not exist yet and would have never come into existence without the Gospel of John where it is shown how and why it is an inspired religion.

Doctor X

Ahhh . . . no . . .

Genealogies: both try to link Junior to the Davidic line--something to place him in the history of his religion. I am afraid Occam's Razor suggests that two independent genealogies were made up by two independent authors.

Judas: hard to hang yourself after you explode. . . One may wish to consider Judas a "blame the Jews" figure, but the bottom line is he becomes a fairy-tale character. Lk, Mt and Mk & Jn use him differently. Again, most reasonable explanation is two different writers who did not no one another.

Lk does not, to the best of my recollection, claim "inspiration." Furthermore, I see no textual evidence for your claim. Indeed, since Lk-Acts is one work in two parts, it was written after the events of Acts . . . which would place it long after the death of Junior.

Jn also does not, to my memory, claim inspiration. "Inspiration" of scripture is a rather late concept--any clown can claim it; it has no value.

Perhaps someone here with more understanding can find "Church Father St. Jacob the Turgid" who writes, "yea, did we found the most holy and apostolic Church on John!" Otherwise, the theology is different. Furthermore, Jn is not highly regarded--he gets "stuck" at the end of the three synoptics because of it.

Anyways. . . .

I can only recommend you consider reading some of the source materials. Under the recommended reading, Koester is good, but long, as exciting as a poodle show, and a bit "dated" in opinion. Mack is good, but far briefer--someone might complain it is not complete enough. For example, someone here does not agree with the "Synoptic Solution"--Mt and Lk rewrite Mk and use a "Sayings Source" Q. Fine, but even he has to know the literature in order to argue against it.

--J.D.

R P McMurphy

Thanks for all the replys,

And sorry for the delay in continuing my post from before. I do find it very interesting that someone thinks that the beast refers to YHVH. That is a curious idea, but what follows is just as curious.

The famous passage makes explicit reference to the practice of gematria - adding the numerical values of the letters of a name to find the "number" of a name. So after a few thousand attempts to find a name that will yield the sum of 666 out of its letters, what about the *other* names in the NT? What are their numerical equivalents?

Well, I won't go into all that wilderness except to note that the most important name, Jesus, has a numerical value of 888.

Now a flood of questions follows. Surely the author of Revelation wasn't ignorant of gematria, and it follows then that he was well aware of the 888 value. Are there "connections" between 666 and 888 numerically? Mathematically, yes there are, but who knows if that is important. I mention the Jesus 888 value to contrast it with the 666 value to show that a mathematical relationship between numbers that are obtained from gematria is entirely possible. It is possible that John used the gematria of Jesus' name as an inspiration for his Mark of the Beast as the number 666.

There are other precedents for the number 666. It appears 3 times in the OT, most importantly in Kings where it is given as a sum of money. Why 666 as a sum of money? Well, the author of Kings probably wrote the book in Babylon. The Babylonians used a "sexigesimal" system - a hybrid number sustem that used alternately both 6 and 10 as a base. So the number 600 + 60 + 6 is a combination of units of measure - the same as if we were to say 1000, 100 and 10.

However to continue to the point of the matter. One of the traditions of gematria is that words or names that have the same numerical value are considered to be (esoterically) equal. So that one can take out one word and insert another having the same numerical value and therby obtain a new or secret meaning. The famous verse goes like this;

Here is wisdom let he who hath understanding calculate the number of the beast for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.

By gematria, the sum of the (Greek) letters that come after "the number of a man" is 2368. And 2368 is the numerical value of the name Jesus Christ (888 + 1480). So, by gematria, the verse may be read in the following way,

Here is wisdom, let he who hath the understanding calculate the number of the beast for it is the number of a man, Jesus Christ.

This reading of course puts an entirely different "spin" on the verse and possible the intention of the entire book of Revelation. Is it possible that John had one message for the "true believers" and another for "he who hath the understanding?"

What have the NT experts to say about this wholly unexplained fact in the passage about the Mark of the Beast? In as much as the whole construction of the book is like a mirror - with two of everything - one for the Holy and one for the Satanic, what are we to make of the passage that expilcitly refers to the practice of gematria (the only place in the entire Bible) and *contained within itself* is the number of Jesus Christ is such a position as to render the passage entirely readable in *two* different lights?

Does John mean to identify Jesus Christ with the Beast?

What do you say? What does Yuri say?

Thanks,

R. P. McMurphy

Devilnaut

Hi McMurphy. That is an interesting point about Christ's numbers being 888, and I suppose that would make sense.


"Are there "connections" between 666 and 888 numerically?"


Well, yes... 1 is God, 2 is the division between good and evil and separation from God, 3 is foraging forward and is beauty (notice we find odd numbers more attractive) etc... there are many ways to think about these symbols and the bible certainly encourages this (it makes a lot of hubub about the days of the week, for example: don't work on the 7th day! Because on the 7th day you rest... that is, unless you're ready to come full circle to 8).

You could even take some liberties and notice that the number 6 looks like a circle that kept going (instead of remaining complacent in its small world) and that 8 is the symbol for infinity.

Anyway 6 to me represents the great absurdity coming to remind people who are almost to 8 (well heck they'd never get to 8 without 6 right) that their religion was just another tool (symbol) to be cast away. The next part in rev clearly identifies with the number 7. The reason we have only 7 days in our week is because 8 is really just the same as 1.


Also

"Is it possible that John had one message for the "true believers" and another for "he who hath the understanding?""

It seems to me that at this point in the text these two ways of thinking should be converging.

RTS

Jesus Christ is the Beast!!!

For a comprehensive study in Gematria and Isopsephia go here:

http://www.jesus8880.com/homepage.htm

Why was Revelation written? Go here:

http://www.revelationjesuschrist.com/why-written.htm

Pythagoreanism and sacred geometry are two complex interlocking systems. We're going to try and delve into them a bit. They are quite amazing. Truly amazing. For starters, I'm going to stick to the stuff that relates with the celestial bodies. After that, we'll diversify a bit more.

This post is just to get you a bit familiar with gematria. Gematria is really the same word as geometry and knowing your geometry will be a BIG help.

I'm going to have to assume that you all have SOME amount of familiarity with gematria--the system that assigns numerical values to letters. There is Greek, Roman, Hebrew and other types of gematria. Mainly we're going to be concerned with Greek and Hebrew gematria.

I'm not going to post a list of the numerical values for these alphabets. There's plenty of books on the subject and you can verify my usages that way and please correct me if I am wrong. The thing to keep in mind about gemetria is that it is applied not only to words, but to phrases, sentences and paragraphs.

There are some words and their gematria equivalents I want you to get familiar with because it will help later on a great deal. If you have read David Fideler's "Jesus Christ: Sun of God" then you'll recognize these:

ZEUS=612
APOLLO (APOLLON)=1061
HE HODOS (The path or way)=352
THEOS (god)=284
OURANOS (Heaven or sky)=891
HO THEOS (The God)=354
HERMES=353
JESUS (IESOUS)=888
CHRIST (CHRISTOS)=1480
PERISTERA (Dove)=801
ICHTHUES (Fishes) or TO DIKTUON (The net)=1224
THE GOD HERMES=707
BIOS (physical life)=282
ZOE (mental life)=815
HELIOS=318
ARTOI (Loaves)=481
HO LOGOS=443
CHRIST THE LOGOS=1923
THE GOD APOLLO=1415
KOSMOS=600

In gematria, it is not necessary that a word or phrase total EXACTLY the number gematria would give it. It's okay to be off by one.

For the sake of time, I also shall not delve into geometry formulas but I will use them and, if you are not familiar with your geometry, you may find it a bit stuffy. A geometry text would help if you're not up in your math. Hopefully, this subject will change that.

What is important to understand is that this was not some esoteric diversion for the ancient peoples. Sacred geometry and gematria was a way of life, a way of looking at the world.

What you'll see is a mind-boggling system of interlocking disciplines that will often surpass belief. It's amazing but not inexplicable and we'll go into that later. Without futher ado, let's get started!

There are some amazing "coincidences" between geometry and what we know about the various celestial bodies.
The word "geometry" comes from "geo" or earth, and "meter" or to count or measure"--in short "earth measurement". There is a good reason is called this--it does indeed measure the earth with shocking precision.

We all know that the ratio of the diameter of a circle to its circumference is pi or 3.14159. But we didn't always know pi so precisely. Pi was, at one time, calculated as 22/7 or 3.142857. Later on, it was more closely calculated as 864/275 or 3.141818182.

Now, the ancient astronomers calculated eons in terms of the Great Year. What is a Great Year? The length of time it took the earth to complete a single wobble of its precession or about 25,920 years. They tracked this by watching how the sun slowly slide back through the 12 signs of the zodiac. The zodiac formed a circle and there are 360 degrees in a circle. Therefore each sign occupied 360/12=30 degrees. To travel 30 degrees due to precession took the sun 2160 years or what we call a zodiacal age. To better track the sun, each 30-degree sign was divided into 5-degree sections called decans and there 6 decans per sign and hence 72 decans in the entire zodiac (although the decans were originally calculated at 70 but a base ten number for 12 signs was cumbersome).

To the ancients, the earth is a special house of life--unique in the universe (even today, most astronomers and biologists agree that there is probably no life elsewhere in the universe, certainly not intelligent life as the conditions required to bring it about are very, very stringent and very unlikely to have been reproduced anywhere else).

So, the earth is what Revelation calls "the New Jerusalem". Revelation gives the measurement of this celestial city. John is instructed to make use of a "reed like a rod" and measure this city. The Greek term for "reed like a rod" is "kalamos homoios rabdo" which, in gematria, is equal to 1729. This is very close the length of an Egyptian royal cubit, which is 1.728 feet.

According to John, the celestial city measure 144 cubits and some 12,000 furlongs. A furlong is equal to 660 feet. Here, some information is being scattered up, as we will find often happens. It is really 12 furlongs and 14400 cubits. The New Jerusalem is said to be "foursquare" and basically cubical. So each side of the square is 12 furlongs or:

12x660=7920 feet. Therefore the perimeter of the city is 7920 ft. x 4 which equals 31,680 feet.

If we inscribe a circle to fit exactly within this square, that circle has a circumference of 24883.2 ft. The diameter of the circle would, of course, be equal to the length of a side of the square which is 7920 feet.

Oddly enough, 14400 cubits x 1.728 ft. = 24,833.2 ft
Even odder, 7920 ft. x (the old pi of 864/275) = 24,833.2 ft.

Now let us look at something astonishing!

Diameter of the earth = 7920 miles
Circumference of the earth = 24,883.2 miles
Perimeter of a square around the circle of the earth = 31,680 miles
Diameter of the moon = 2160 miles

7920-2160=5040. A circle with a radius of 5040 units multiplied by 22/7 (older pi) = 31,680 units, the same as square around the circle of the earth and the same as the perimeter of the New Jerusalem. What's so special about 31,680? The Lord = 800, Iesous = 888 and Christos = 1480 and 800+888+1480=3168.

The distance between the earth and moon = 237,600 miles and the perimeter of a hexagon inscribed exactly inside the circle of the earth = 23,760 miles.

Play around with it and discover your own connections. It's amazing and tremendous fun!

You've all heard of the 3,4,5 triangle, right? For those unfamiliar with it, we use the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the missing side of a right-angled triangle. Basically, the hypotenuse is equal to the square root of the rise and run squared. The hypotenuse is always the longest side.

3+4+5=12 and 3x4x5=60. 12+60=72 and 12x60=720. Now in gematria, 72 and 720 are equivalent. Not only are there 72 decans in the zodiac but 72 and 720 represent truth because the Greek phrase for "the truth" is "he aletheia" which comes out to 72. 60/12=5 and 12 raised to the power of 5 equals 248832, which we know is the circumference of the earth--24,883.2 miles. 1x2x3x4x5x6=720 (designated as 6! or 6 factorial in mathematics) and 8x9x10=720.

Now, let's take a 3,4,5 triangle and multiply each side by 720. We get 2160, 2880 and 3600. 2160 is the number of years in a zodiacal age. 2880 is twice 1440 (the number of acres in the New Jerusalem circle which has a radius of 3960 feet) and 14400 is the number of cubits in 24,883.2 miles, the circumfernce of the earth. 3600 is significant because 36x2=72, 36x4=144, 36x5=180 (or pi in degrees), 36x6=216 which is gematrically equal to 2160. 2160+2880+3600=8640 and the are 86,400 seconds in a day. Interestingly, 864 is twice 432, which is a sacred number in Hinduism and 4321 is a numerical representation of the Pythagorean tetraktys. With each side of the New Jerusalem cube being 144,000 sq. furlongs, and there being 6 sides to a cube, the 144,000x6=864,000 and the sun just happens to be 864,000 miles in diameter. The Greek word for "saints" is "Hagion" and, in gematria, equals 864 as does the Greek word for "god" or "theon". Pi was once caluculated as 864/275.

2160 added to the diameter of the earth in miles, 7920 (720x11), equals 10080. Gematrically, 10080 is equal to 108. 36x3=108. The radius of the moon is 1080 miles. Hence 1080x2=2160. 10080 is twice 5040 and in the last post, we stated that a circle with a radius of 5040 units, which happens to the radius of the New Jerusalem circle, has a circumference of 31,680 units and 3168 is gematrically equal to Lord Jesus Christ in Greek. 720x7=5040. 7920x5040=1x2x3x4x5x6x7x8x9x10x11 (or 11!). A circle with a radius of 5040 units has an area of 11!x2 using 22/7 for pi.

Numerical values can be scattered up. For example, 2160 is encoded in Revelation 12:6 where the woman flees to the wilderness for 1260 days (and the chapter and verse are not coincidental either).

5040 is gematrically equal to both 504 and 540. The square root of 540 is 23, the number of degrees of the earth's tilt. There are 540 degrees in a pentagon and each angle is 108 degrees. 36x3=108 and 36x5=180. There are 180 degrees in a triangle. A pentagram is composed of a pentagon surrounded by 5 triangle that form the star shape. 180x5=900 degrees in all and adding in the 540 degrees of the pentagon makes 1440 degrees. If we inscribe a circle around the pentagram that adds another 360 degrees and so 1440+360=1800. The circle is touch by a vertex of each of the 5 triangles at 5 equally spaced points and so 360/5=72, truth and the number of decans in the zodiac. Since 72x5=360, we must add this to the 1800 degrees we have for to calculate all the degrees in a circled pentagram, so 1800+360=2160. So, the New Jerusalem is also a pentagram enclosed in a circle.

The Chinese designated a Superior Principle and an Inferior Principle--something like the Western macrocosm and microcosm. Numerically, they made the Superior Principle=216 (which is half of of 432 and a quarter of 864) and the Inferior Principle=144. 216+144=360, so added together the two principles equal a full cycle (such as full year running thru its 4 seasons and the year is generally reckoned at 360 days), a unity. The ratio between the two 216:144 can be reduced to 3:2, which is known in music as a perfect fifth.

REVELATION DECODED-- THE YIN AND YANG

The number of fusion is 1746. It represents the union of the two great opposites—Yin and Yang. Yang is the male principle and yin the female. Yang is heaven and yin is earth. Yang is sun and yin is moon. Yang is fire and yin is water. Yang is electrical and yin is magnetic. Although they are opposite in nature, they not opposing principles but rather complimentary. They lean against one another in support.

Together, they form the Universal Spirit, which is “to pneuma kosmou” in Greek and adds up to 1746 in gematria.
One is matter and the other is the consciousness inherent in matter. Together the form the seed of life represented in the NT as the mustard seed. In Greek, “kokkos sinapeos” or “grain of mustard seed” adds up to 1746.

“The glory of the God of Israel” was supposedly the light that emanated from the Holy of Holies where the electrical currents of the heavens were united with the magnetic currents in the earth. Its Greek name, “he doxa tou theou Israel”, adds up to 1746.
The secret of consciousness and matter, how they interact, and what they ultimately aspire to was what Jesus really taught (figuratively speaking as there was no historical person teaching this stuff as the gospels portray it). This is called “the Hidden Spirit” (to kekkrumenon pneuma=1746), “the Treasure of Jesus” (ho thesaupos Iesou=1746), “the Divinity of Spirit” (he theotes pneumatos=1746), “the Spiritual Law” (ho nomos ho pneumatikos=1746), “the Chalice of Jesus” (to poterion Iesou=1746).

In reality, Jesus himself represented this as the “Son of Virgin Mary” (uios parthenou Marias=1746), the “Precious Pearl of Mary” (timios margarites Marias=1746), Emmanuel the Son of Mary (Emmanouel ho uios Marias=1746), “Jesus, Infant Lamb of Mary “ (Iesous, arnrion paidion Marias=1746), etc.

1746 is also part of the New Jerusalem mentioned in Revelation. As mentioned in other posts, the New Jerusalem is walled in by a square whose perimeter measures 31,680 feet. That square is then imposed upon a circle with the same perimeter and whose diameter is 10080 feet. The circle is then contained within a vesica piscis. The vesica is shaped like a double-convex lens or a football. Its length is always greater than its width by the square root of 3 or approximately 1.732. So the diameter of the circle, 10080 feet, becomes the width of the vesica. 10080 x the sq rt of 3 = 17,460 feet. “Jerusalem, the City of God” then is a fusion of opposites (Ierousalem, he polis theou=1746).

When the two principles of 1746 are separated, the yin principle is 1080. This is called a lunar number. It is the radius of the moon in miles. The moon’s metal in alchemy is silver and silver has an atomic weight of 108. The moon is associated with the pentagon which has angles of 108 degrees each. The Jews divided the hour into 1080 minims and based it on the number of breaths one takes in an hour. Heraclitus believed that civilization was destroyed every 10,800 years and geologists believe that an ice age occurs in cycles of approximately 10,800 years. There are 1080 pillars surrounding Valhalla according to the Eddas.
1080 represent the earth forces such as night, wind and clouds and rain. In conjunction with its solar counterpart, it produces the rights amounts of these things to keep the earth regulated. Without a solar balance, 1080 produces windstorms, floods, earthquakes and the like.

1746-1080=666. The number 666 represents the solar, male, yang principle. Where 1080 is cool and passive, 666 is hot and aggressive. Where 1080 is reason, 666 is authority. The number of the New Jerusalem, 3168, is sum of all the factors of 6660. The magic square of the sun is a 6x6 arrangement of a matrix of the numbers from 1 to 36. No number is repeated in the matrix and each horizontal and vertical row adds up to 111. Since there are 6 rows and columns, the matrix adds up to 666. The sum of all the numbers from 1 to 36 is 666.

What we read in Revelation is a Gnostic understanding of Christ. The writer not only does not subscribe to the view of historical Jesus Christ, he condemns it. In Chapter 12, he relays a new birth story for Christ far different than what appears in the gospels. A woman wearing a crown on 12 stars and clothed with the sun with the moon under her feet is giving birth. Crouching at her feet is a red dragon who is ready to devour her offspring as soon as it is born. Obviously, this is taking place in the sky.

This is, of course, pure astrotheology. The woman wearing the crown of twelve stars is part of the zodiac with its twelve constellations. Which part? Well, she’s the Holy Virgin so that would make her Virgo. The dragon crouching at her feet is Scorpio. Libra intervenes between the two nowadays, but in earlier times, Libra used to be the claws of Scorpio. She is clothed the sun because the sun has entered Virgo, which used to be where the autumnal equinox occurred. So, we are seeing the autumnal equinox taking place. The child she is carrying is the sun of the winter months which is seen as “smaller” because the sun is further away during these colder months. Scorpio, the dragon of darkness, crouches at her feet to devour the child because after, she gives birth, i.e. the sun passes out of Virgo, the sun then passes into Scorpio who appears to devour it—throwing the earth into darkness and cold. Why was the scorpion chosen to represent this time of year? Why not a real dragon? Because scorpions flee from sunlight. Not because of heat. Scorpions live quite comfortably in 140-degree weather. Although direct sunlight in the desert will kill a scorpion (or anything else) the real reason they flee sunlight so desperately is because THE LIGHT ITSELF kills them! A scorpion has only a few minutes to find shade or the light will kill it. So the ancients made the scorpion the prince of darkness.

So, the author of Revelation was trying to tell us the TRUE birth story of Christ—its actual meaning. It was this much earlier story that the gospel-writers sought to historicize and pass off on us as an actual event.

But we also notice that the woman has the moon under her feet. Why is that? Because she represents 1080, the lunar number, it is her foundation. She has a calming effect on the power and authority of 666, the solar number. Yet after giving birth, she must flee into the wilderness for 1260 days. This is 2160 scattered up, the diameter of the moon and twice 1080. It is also the length of zodiacal year and so she is in exile or hiding for a zodiacal year. The number is scattered because as 1260 days, it is also 42 months (30+12, both significant astrotheological numbers and 30x12=360 or 36 in gematria). 42 months is also 3 ½ years. 3 ½ is half of 7 and 7 is a significant number. 7 is completion and 3 ½ represents incompletion. So, two cycles are required. 1260 x2=2520 and 252 is 36x7.

Because she must hide, 666 now has no restraining influence.

REVELATION DECODED-- GETTING TOO MUCH SUN

>>And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems upon its horns and a blasphemous name upon its heads. And the beast that I saw was like a leopard, its feet were like a bear's, and its mouth was like a lion's mouth. And to it the dragon gave his power and his throne and great authority. One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth followed the beast with wonder.<<

This is the sun rising in all its unrestrained power at the dawn of a new zodiacal age. Here, the writer is plainly letting us know that Christ is zodiacal or Kronian symbol—and not a historical figure. But an unscrupulous church has arisen that has clothed this divine being in flesh and, in this sense, turned him into a beast. And without the civilizing influence of 1080—a beast this creature is indeed. He has a mortal wound but it has healed—the crucifixion and subsequent resurrection.

>>Men worshiped the dragon, for he had given his authority to the beast, and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who can fight against it?" And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months; it opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven.<<
This is a reference to the made-up earthly Jesus Christ. The King of kings. He has power for a full zodiacal age.

>>Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and tongue and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it, every one whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain. If any one has an ear, let him hear: If any one is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if any one slays with the sword, with the sword must he be slain. Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.<<

The saints spoken of here are the Gnostic saints not Christian ones. Those who worship this beast—the human Jesus Christ—are those who do not understand who this ancient personage truly is. There is no reward for enduring suffering in this world, says John. If you are taken captive then you are a captive and that is all. Slay with the sword in the name of this Jesus creature and you will someday die that way. John assures that Gnostics that this is the truth and endure the Christian bastardization of their religion.

>>Then I saw another beast which rose out of the earth; it had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon.<<

This is a reference to the church that arose in the name of the human Christ beast. Its rising up out of the earth represents its material origins and intentions. Its “two horns like a lamb” represents its devil-in-disguise nature. It speaks or roars like a dragon frightening the spiritually timid into its fold.

>>It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed.<<

All the Church’s authority is drawn from the fable it has erected around its beast that was wounded unto death but arose again. Through this fable, they make the spiritually timid worship them via worshipping the beast.

>>It works great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in the sight of men; and by the signs which it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast, it deceives those who dwell on earth, bidding them make an image for the beast which was wounded by the sword and yet lived; and it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast so that the image of the beast should even speak, and to cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.<<

The Church performs wonders and has even reserved for itself the power to declare what constitutes a miracle of Christ. It manufactures images of this wounded beast—the crucified Christ—and claims to speak for this creature so that to oppose the church is to oppose the very son of God who has come to save all humanity. The reference to the image of the beast is, in Greek, “he eikon tou therion” and equals 2260. The Greek phrase for “Son of Man” or “ho uios anthropou” of Revelation 14, is also 2260. The Christ is also the Antichrist. For while Christ gave us hope and love, he also gave us a power-hungry and ruthless Church. Those who dare to oppose them, they unhesitatingly put to death.

>>Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.<<
Everyone of every class not marked with the mark of the beast is excommunicated.

>>This calls for wisdom: let him who has understanding reckon the number of the beast, for it is a human number, its number is six hundred and sixty-six.<<

The number of the beast IS the number of a man for man is the beastly part of God according to Gnostic belief. And its number is 666, the solar number whose power is unchecked by 1080—the woman who ran and hid in the wilderness from the dreadful dragon of darkness who created the man-beast Christ and the Church that arose in its name. “And its number is 666” reads in Greek “kai arithmos autou 666.” 666 is represented in the Greek text by Chi, xi and stigma or 600, 60 and 6. “kai arithmos autou” adds up to 1702 and adding on the 666, we get 2368 or Iesous Christos.

Now you've been warned!

R P McMurphy

RTS,

Well, thanks a bunch for the links to Dan Gleason's page!

Now I feel like I am finally getting somewhere - I should have read his stuff earlier however I was formerly of the opinion that Gleason was an orthodox believer who sought to reinforce his views through the use of gematria. I now see that I've misjudged him.

I have known about Gleason's work for some time - but I originally read about the gematria mystery in the NT some 30 years ago through the books of John Michell - whose fanciful intrepretations I do not agree with - however his references to the gematria in the NT have always fascinated me, however I have not until now ever read in detail Dan Gleason's explanation of the Book of Revelation.

It is to me upon first reading very convincing. However, I most want to know what the scholars who study the NT (not the religious orthodox ones!) have to say about the whole matter.

It seems to me that the explanation of Gleason about the history of the Christian movement in the early days is very important. It explains so many puzzling aspects of the NT that I believe that it is imperative that we have some furthur work by other scholars to test and retest the revolutionary ideas of Gleason. I feel that the thesis presented has the potential to finally put to rest a ton of false ideas about Christianity.

The importance of this project can hardly be overstated in my opinion.

Again - what do the scholars say?

And thanks so much to Dan Gleason - even if he turns out not to be supportable!

R. P. McMurphy

Kruger

If Christ is the beast then it is in accordance with his own words that said his second coming is not to bring peace but chaos and destructions. What i believe from this is that soul of the dead will be awoken from hell and release as flesh and blood. Breathing but with a dead soul which focus on selfish and narrow purposes guided by the devil and minions. In other words the trouble maker of the past. Which bring me to a conclusions it safer to believe otherwise you be abondan to the devil who hate mankind. God will not punish instead he will abondan and whoelse will takeover. The devil will grant us our greatest fear.


Happy Day

Doctor X

Or . . . it call all just be a dig at the Romans.

Where did I put my razor?

--J.D.

Doctor X

Nothing new to add, just that this seemed the appropriate place to make my

666th Post!!!

--J.D.