Johann_Kaspar

http://religion.rutgers.edu/nt/primer/papias.html

Why in hell would the "Exegeses of the Logia of the Lord, a 5 volume commentary on the sayings of Jesus" not be preserved and cherished?

In not less than five volumes we would have a complete set of "first hand" (original?) sayings with their interpretation.

Here is the explanation:

"I guess he got these ideas from a misinterpretation of the apostolic accounts. For he did not understand what they said mystically & in figurative language. For he obviously was a man of very little intelligence, as one can tell judging from his sayings. Nevertheless, it was due to him that so many churchmen after him adopted a similar opinion, basing their position on the fact that he was a man of the earliest era." (Eusebius)

So clearly Eusebius the xian has a complete different ideology than Papias. Here the xian lie began. It is only one successfull sect among many having falsified the Jewish texts.

Noteworthy is that the (holy?) sayings were thrown away at the same time as their "(mis)interpretation".

Mary.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I didn't know that.

Bede

Perhaps Johann could give us the reference to Eusebius and tell us what issue he is talking about here. He has presented far too little evidence to claim a text was deliberately suppressed.

Yours

Bede

Bede's Library - faith and reason

Toto

From the link given:

(Eccles. Hist. 3.39.12-13)

I don't see Johann_Kaspar claiming that a text was deliberately suppressed - only that it is notable that it was not preserved. What would your explanation of that be? But perhaps there is a language barrier.

Bede

Thanks's Toto. Here's the passage in context.

Eusebias on Papias

The issue is actually about what happens at the end of the world, which AFAIK, Christians still haven't agreed on. Important but certainly not 'a completely different ideology'. BTW, this link also shows that Papias admitted his saying were NOT first hand or original but came from the apostles whom Eusebius thinks he misunderstood at times.

Here's some context for Johann Previous post

So I think he is saying that Papias was suppressed. Perhaps he can clear the matter up for us and tell us how he knows when the sayings were 'thrown away'. I'd also like to know what he means by 'here the xian lie began'. Does this mean Eusebius invented everything?

Yours

Bede

Bede's Library - faith and reason

Al Kafirun

Maybe this is over my head, but I don't understand the conflict here. If there a differing on the contention that Eusebius was wary of Papias, that possibly for this reason much of the latters writing has been 'lost'?

Vinnie

My understanding on Eus and Pap is that Eus had an axe to grind with Revelation whereas Papias accepted it. Hence Eus is quick to deny what Iren says, that Papias was a hearer of the apostle John. Gundry notes that Eus almost seems to contradict himself on this (Gundry Mark).

There are presumably a ton of texts that have not survived to us. Ignatius' letters show us what happens to texts not protected by canonical privledge.

I think it would help us a lot if we did have Papias' text as I think there are some strong evidences for placing Papias very early in the 2d century.

Bede

Bumped for Johann, now he is back.

Al Kafirun

Yeah, this was a good thread then it died. And on the third day...?