mountainman

In the case of Apollonius we have more than just text in support of the assertion. Apollonius purportedly lived in the first century. We have various modes of evidence with which to increment his historicity. The problem with the HJ is lack of comparable citations, either for the HJ or for the followers of the HJ until --- well, until very late.



Best wishes,


Pete Brown

mountainman

The question is would you have said these words to the face of a christian emperor? And would you have said these same words? What words of those centuries (one of 2,3,4) match these? Any at all? What about .... There was a age when Jesus was not. When did the reaction to Jesus first take place for sure, outside the literature?

Best wishes



Pete Brown

Roger Pearse

Tell us more about this inscription, such as what it says, when it dates from, context etc.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Jeffrey Gibson

Where do you find these particular words being said?

Jeffrey

mountainman

An Epigram on Apollonius of Tyana
C. P. Jones
The Journal of Hellenic Studies,
Vol. 100, Centennary Issue. (1980),
pp. 190-194.

Greek Translation

'This man, named after Apollo,
and shining forth Tyana,
extinguished the faults of men.
The tomb in Tyana (received) his body,
but in truth heaven received him
so that he might drive out the pains of men
(or:drive pains from among men) .'

--- Ancient inscription, translated C. P. Jones

I have extracted some of the discussion to the above URL, where the full article is available via URL from JSTOR. It is thought to be from the 3rd or 4th century, possibly during the reign of Diocletian.

Best wishes,


Pete Brown

mountainman

In the De Synodis of Hilary of Poitiers.


Best wishes,


Pete Brown

spamandham

In context, this is merely quoting various Arians, who claimed that Jesus did not exist prior to his birth. I don't see how this implies he was fictional.

mountainman

And the Arians are quoting Arius at the Council of Nicaea.
The same words quoted by the christian historians after the event.

Was the heresy of Arius considered docetic?


Best wishes


Pete Brown

Jeffrey Gibson

Chapter and verse and original wording, please -- and some context that shows that Arius was asserting that the "age" he refers to was the Imperial age immediately before Constantine, not some pre-mundane or other "age", and that for him "Jesus" (does the name Jesus actually appear in Arius' claim?) means "the Christian religion".

Jeffrey

Jeffrey Gibson

And these Christians historians are who? And their quotations of Arius's words are now found where exactly? In what documents? Cite them, please, and give us the actual words the attribute to Arius, not an (your?) English translation of them.

Jeffrey