aa5874

Who do you know was martyred? And people throughtout history have died for what they believe, whether or not their belief reflects reality. You may find someone have already died for Apollo, Osiris, Allah, Vesta, Ra or hundreds of other Gods. Dying for belief in a God is not uncommon at all, the figure may approach tens of millons.

spin

I must admit you've got a nerve. First you expect people to sit through some lame video that you've got your knickers knotted over, video that you seem incapable of extracting the salient argument from. Then when people don't buy into your video, you spout triumphal syndrome. Get a life.

If you have something to say, try saying it, rather than relying on the work of someone else who will not be present to deal with the argumentation and for whom you are unable to represent. It doesn't work like that here. We deal with ideas that people elaborate here.

If you want to say anything meaningful about biblical texts, feel free to go ahead. You mention texts, but give no analysis, a process which is quite meaningless.

So, please get a grip on reality and say something tangible. Start by expressing at length the argument in your video that so appeals to you. If you understand it you should be able to present it and defend it. That's when you'll get a dialogue.


spin

dlawbailey

He acts as though Jesus preached without reference to "The Book" as though Jesus could be an independent, retrospective prover of everything in the Bible.

Silly.

Habermas dances falsely ascribes, brings in arguments he has previously said he didn't need - it's a nice job, but it's junk.

The "proof" of the resurrection is several conflicting testimonies about something that is no more believable than any of the many other miracles described in the Bible.

Also, resurrection is a consistent claim throughout religions.

dlawbailey

1. A) Paul's arguments are thin. He bases his "walk by faith" argument on one verse from a minor prophet who was not even included in some versions of the early Bible. He may also be a nut. He's a lovely writer, but the idea that we can, after the fact, know what Paul - who was writing to persuade - actually believed is not credible.

B) What the hell do I care what Paul said?

2. Conferring makes their testimony far, far less believable - in fact barely credible. The more people confer, the more they convince each other of a common "memory". It's been demonstrated time and time again.

3. People can persuade themselves of almost anything. Have you not noticed the large number of Muslim "martyrs" (not to mention Hindu and every other darn persuasion) who blow themselves up believing that it is their religious duty when the Koran strictly forbids it?

4. There is a very common and well-known phenomenon where, by reinforcement, groups of people create false memories. Traumatic event with multiple witnesses - particularly at different times during the event - are especially subject to creating false memories. http://faculty.washington.edu/eloftu...cles/sciam.htm

5. God could have the power, but what God? Why wasn't it an incarnation of Vishnu? Voodoo priests have called "loa" spirits to make people disappear and reappear - particularly near the time of death. Besides, maybe Jesus was rescued! Maybe that guard who stuck him in the side couldn't live with himself and he grabbed Jesus out of the tomb and revived him. Also pixies could have done it. Pixies are like that.

Steven Carr

Habermas claims that 1 in 4 Biblical scholars doubt his 'minimal facts' and that this means that it is a fact.

If 1 in 4 professional biologists doubted evolution, would that make the theory of evolution controversial?

Steven Carr

Is this a joke?

Mary supposedly was told by an angel that she was carrying God, and the 'family of Jesus' (ie his cousin John the Baptist) kicked for joy in the womb!

Then Joseph got a message.

And various other amazing things happened at the birth.

Then his family must have observed the literally Christ-like behaviour of Jesus, and noticed that he was the only Jew who never made a sin-offering.

So one Gospel has the family of Jesus kicking for joy in the womb at the news that Jesus was arriving (!), while another Gospel has the family of Jesus regarding him as nuts.

What minimal fact? The whole thing is a joke.

Steven Carr

Really? I thought the disciples were supposed to be scared?

Now they turn up at the crucifixion in full view of the Roman soldiers, who must have been on the look out for the friends of the crucified rebel , friends who had attacked the arresting party.

Steven Carr

Even if that were true , so what?

It is just resurrection-of-the-gaps.

If nobody can find a naturalistic explanation for thunder, is the existence of Thor then an established fact?

Paul was the sort of person who claimed to have gone to Heaven.

Some nutcase claims to have gone to Heaven.

Christians believe nutcases, and insist others believe what nutcases claim to have seen.

Toto

Churchworker hightailed it out just before he was exposed as a reincarnation of serial banned user Troy Brooks. So I don't expect an answer to your questions.

spin

How was he better known?


spin