workerforthechuch

Lecture at UNC Chapel Hill - April 11, 2007 (latest video just added by the leading scholar on resurrection)

http://www.garyhabermas.com/video/video.htm

Watch Part I to Part VII and if you cannot overturn specifically the argument by Gary R. Habermas, then what are you going to do?

In all my years of study and the past two millennia, the argument presented by Habermas has always remained the ultimate proof for Christ.

Once you reach the point of realizing nothing in nature happens all by itself, there is always a cause in the physical universe to everything and there cannot be an eternity of the past, then you are left with the only possibility the uncreated created. By realizing the proof for Jesus in the video and knowing there must be an uncreated creator, by putting these two facts together, you know with certainty Jesus is the uncreated creator and savior.

uncool

Could you summarize the argument, in your own words? I do not have enough time, at the momet, to watch the video.

Also, why couldn't the uncreated creator be the universe itself?
=Uncool-

workerforthechuch

The uncreated creator cant be the universe itself because the universe always has a cause.

I will not create a long post, but just give you a clue to the video of that ultimate proof which hinges on using just the Minimal Facts Approach.

David B

I'm not familiar with the term 'Minimal Facts Approach'.

Please elucidate.

David B (is also unfamiliar with capitalised approaches)

workerforthechuch

Just using facts 95 to 99.9% of scholars agree on.

David B

You mean scholars in the relevant field, or scholars as a whole?

What percentage of astrology scholars would agree that astrology basically works, do you think?

What percentage of Vedic scholars agreeing that the Vedas are divinely inspired, do you think?

What percentage of Islamic scholars agreeing that the Koran is divinely inspired, do you think?

David B (is somewhat enamoured of the idea of Reality Checking)

workerforthechuch

All scholars who discuss the subject, both Christian and non-Christian, from all kinds of backgrounds well represented. Obviously, if someone does not address these several items, then that person cannot be consulted for he has no comment on the subject.

Gary has tallied all these scholars from the past 40 or 50 years which took over 500 pages of just tables. And if he had time, I am sure he would do the past 100 or several hundred years. But he is the only scholar on the planet to my knowledge that has documented the specific beliefs regarding just those minimal facts accepted by almost all scholars.

uncool

That doesn't really say anything about how he's working.
And how do you know the universe was created? How do you know it hasn't existed forever?
=Uncool-

Toto

The minimal facts approach is a thoroughly unconvincing, dumbed down "proof" of Christianity. It centers on the empty tomb, although it is not true that 95-99 % of scholars agree that there was an empty tomb.

Habermas claims that there was an empty tomb that cannot be explained other than by Jesus resurrecting from the dead, and this had such an effect on his followers that they willingly went to their deaths for him, therefore you should turn off your brain and send your money to .... okay I made that last up, but the minimal facts have been ripped apart and shown to be false or meaningless so often here that I don't know what our new friend, workerforthechurch, thinks he can tell us.

workerforthechuch

How do I know the universe was created? I already gave the reason. How do I know it has not existed before it existed? Because if it had, then you would not still be sinning by now, since you would have been derived from the past.

The way Gary is working is to choose all those scholars who discuss the subject of the several matters pertaining to the proof. Of all them, 95 to 99.9% agree with all these facts.