Moxy

I'm looking for a relatively simple point by point rundown of how Jesus stacks up against the textual qualifications that the Jewish Messiah needs to meet. What they all are, which he satisfied, and which he didn't.

I'm sure it's been covered in great depth somewhere around here, but I'm not really having a lot of luck finding it. :huh:

Moxy

Nothin? Bah.

Orthodox_Freethinker

Messianic Prophecies
By: J. Hampton Keathley, III , Th.M.
http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=580

Peace.

Alethias

I believe you will probably get more answers to this question in the Biblical Criticism and History Forum, so I'm moving it there

SwordOfTruth,
GRD Moderator

Evilicious

Moshiach: The Messiah

Zeichman

I think current critical scholarly consensus is that the "office" of the Messiah was not widely expected in Jesus' time. The Hebrew Bible, for example, is silent on the topic. The Apocryphal Book of Jubilees (100 BCE) makes one mention of the Messiah, but assigns him no importance.

I would also be wary of those who try to retroject post-70 messianic expectations onto second temple thinking, such as Hyam Maccoby.

Steven Avery

Hi Zeichman. The New Testament gives a lot of insight on first century expectations (e.g. note that the disciples did not really have an a priori affinity to the atoning sacrifice concept). The late David Flusser is an example of a historian who accepted this as primary source material on 1st century Judaism. Of course that gives a different view of the Hebrew Bible than what you present above. The Targumim give an excellent window of Jewish expections as well, and also don't fit the 'critical scholarly consensus' view you express (specifics ?.. can we be skeptical of 'critical scholarship' ? :-) . Anyway, what do you think of the views of Messiah in the Targumim ?

Shalom,
Steven Avery
Queens, NY
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic

Zeichman

The only book which comes to mind (and I may have been way off in my assessment of scholarly consensus) is Saint Saul by Akenson. Messianic expectations isn't something I read much about these days. I must admit my total unfamiliarity with the Targumim.

Steven Avery

http://tinyurl.com/8lwny
The Messiah: An Aramaic Interpretation : The Messianic Exegesis of the Targum by Samson H. Levey

Good starting point, and it gives an early window into the views of Judaism before any apologetic interaction with the believers starting in the first century.

Going back to the original question, it is hard to take any of the critical scholarship of first century Judaism seriously unless they look closely at the verses the Targum view as Messianic. Even before discussing the New Testament and Talmud and Midrash issues.

Shalom,
Steven Avery
Queesns, NY
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic

Moxy

The page that Orthodox_Freethinker posted has prophecies, but these are not the textual qualifications for the Jewish messiah, are they?

My extremely limited understanding of this topic is that this is something different...although I really don't know what.

I'm trying to explain to a Messianic Jew that she is actually a Christian because JC doesn't meet the requirements for messiah. She is using stuff like the above "prophesy" to say that since JC fulfilled them, he IS the messiah.

Does this cover the actual textual requirements adequately?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_...l_requirements

Am I right in looking at #1 on that list:

and saying, The Sanhedrin was NOT re-established by JC, therefore he is NOT the messiah?