ApostateAbe

The claim of magi visiting the birth of Jesus has only one historical attestation, the claim is similar to Christian interests, and the magi have a place only in a birth narrative that has every seeming of invention by Christians. There are no historical magi who attended the birth of Jesus. I think the best that a historian could do is to answer the question of who the community of Matthew had in mind when they thought of "magi." Zoroastrian priests? Seems plausible.

ApostateAbe

Yep. There was no canon as we know it at the time.

steve_bnk

What next, Santa doesn't live at the North Pole?

Chili

He is an imposter too, the real one comes on Dec.6 for children to foreshadow Epiphany for adults later in life, and here business --China these days -- is running away with the loot, giving away the mythology craddle and all.

Santa is fantasy without iconic reality that is written in 'book of Life' that St. Nicholaas OPENS to see if children have been good or if they have been bad and will be rewarded according to what the Great Book has to say and that makes it drama for children as they see 'black Piet' next to Nicholaas Saint who has a white beard that is not white from the snow.

sotto voce

Matthew's gospel, written (unless those cunning Catholics are right) in Greek, refers to mágoi. Not an easy word to translate, and one subject to fanciful interpretations. No doubt the three (kinds of) gifts they brought, with the added seduction of trinitarianism, led to the view that there were just three of them— one being unmistakably Negroid, in more modern views. So perhaps interpretations of mágoi are liable to current social or political influences? Oklahoma; isn't that suspiciously close to the Southern fundamentalist notion that God created in six days? Isn't monasticism a product of a set of fundamentalist notions? Perhaps scholarship needs to take account of the liability of such dubious pressures, and not be over-impressed by the latest idea, available, seasonally adjusted, for $15 on the 'net from a source whose reputation does not resound in academia with all the conviction that it might.

At any rate, Herodotus, a systematic Greek who lived in the 5th century BC, the 'Father of historians', might just be supposed a better informed and less prejudiced source than Oklahoma. He wrote that mágoi were Persian astrologers, dream interpreters, and magicians. Persia was already then inhabited by Jews as well as Persians, due to forced migration. We know from archaeology that Jews were influenced by astrology, but there is no reason to suppose that astrology was not influenced by Judaism, and its scriptures. In Numbers 24:17 we read, and no doubt magi read:

'"I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near. A star will come out of Jacob; a sceptre will rise out of Israel."' (NIV)

With more temporally and geographically local revelation for Persians, added to more about a prophesied king in the Hebrew Scriptures, there is surely enough in this to explain the visit of the magi. Indeed, any notion about Chinese visitors may seem like defiant contradiction.

In the Book of Daniel, a book about one of those relocated Jews, astrologers, supposed interpreters of dreams, of Babylonia were mentioned— translated, before Jesus lived, into Greek as mágoi. So is there really so much need for conjecture?

Chili

The three gifts represent faith, hope, and charity that replace power, wealth, and beauty to enable metanoia that is needed upon our return to Eden on the way back. Only Caspar was added from Persia to represent the fruition of sin on the way up that here now must not be left behind (hint, come as you are and no confession is needed and so not "repent and be-lief' but 'be-lief and repent' so you will know which is which and what is what on the way back).

And the light comes from the river Tigris that no longer winds to gain power, wealth, and beauty but just flows as the star of Bethlehem to give light for the magi to follow prior to Euphrates is found in Gen.2:14.

Please remember that light is an illusion and the magi sure are not fooled by that if they represent wisdom and so they followed the journey that inspirated Joseph on the way out and so paved the way for Joseph to get back to Eden again . . . except of course that Joseph was not home when they arrived in Matthew and so just left presents behind to empower Joseph's Jesus to find his own way back and so remained lost for likely another 40 years and died nonetheless.

I think Caspar was called Casca In Julius Ceasar as the valliance of Cassius and was Valeria in Coriolanus.

DCHindley

Duv,

Back in the 90s Robert Eisenman had a section in his book James the Brother of Jesus which explained by example that to Romans, "Arabia" referred not just to the Arabian peninsula proper, but also to areas of Mesopotamia and even sometimes parts of Africa. I think it was used as a general term to designate nomadic peoples not from Europe.

DCH

DCHindley

It is a well known fact that Magi is derived from Japanese "Magibon" ... duh!



DCH

andrewcriddle

There was an interesting thread last year Magi in the News about this.

Andrew Criddle

seattlegal

I know this sounds really far-out, but they remind me of how the Tibetan lamas go out in search of the child that a recently deceased lama reincarnates as. The parents of such children often have dreams about it, (like Mary and Joseph are reported as having) and the searching lamas will bring gifts that belonged to the deceased lama to present to the child. They consult oracles and look for signs, as well. Jesus also seemed to introduce dharma teachings such as "love your enemies."

Yeah, it's wild and far out, and over 200 years after Ashoka sent monks out to teach the Dharma as far as Egypt and Lybia. :huh: