Tigers!

The Romans were nothing if not thorough. A spear in the side would confirm death, one way or the other.

Chili

No it didn't and blood did not come from his heart. They pierced the wrong side to cross the cavity of his chest to deflate all desire which includes the present generation (blood) and the past generations (water).

Notice that all the senses were pierced, somehow, the hands, the feet, the brow, until finally the ego died with "it is finished."

Chili

To continue this I can add that Jewish Matthew did not know the difference between begotten from 'above by God' and 'below from human desire' as it is identified by Jn.1:13 and therefore does not make this distinction . . . which is the purpose of Jesus showing us the way as explained in Jn.6, and which, of course, is also why Galilee had a bad reputation much like America has today.

So yes, Bethlehem is a must.

Chili

But that is why he was born in Bethlehem while normal Galileans are not.

mens_sana

Water and blood from the wound ...

Blood would not have been shed unless the heart was still pumping. Jesus was alive at the time of the piercing (if it happened). An acquaintance thinks Jesus survived the crucifixion, was nursed in Bethany, but succumbed to his wounds (infection, most likely) 40 days later. An intriguing proposal, at any rate!

Thomas II

Ok,but let's try to keep the mythology with its esoteric meaning separated a bit from the forensics of this case, unless you are saying that the whole thing is mythical...
My take is that,as everything else in the Bible,there is a bit of BOTH.
We could even go one by one saying which we see as mythical or historical...
So, trying to stay with the forensics for now, I found this page that might shed some light over the process of death of Jesus...Tell me what you think...

www.iamtheway.com/crucifixion.htm

Thomas II

The 40 day thing has an esoteric significance in the Bible, since it is a number that is repeated in the context of transformational transitions,either in 40 days or in 40 years.

For reference see:
www.bsc300.org/Number_40_type.htm

Chili

The number 4 makes reference to wold or Egypt as opposed to heaven in Israel. It is mental mid-life switch we make from our left brain to our right brain with 40 days being the non-rational or dark cocoon stage and 40 months the change-over needed for the transformation of our mind so our body might be a new body.

Chili

It is wrong Thomas.

Did you notice that they refer to the crucifixion as the death of Jesus Christ? You can't do that. Jesus died and the death of Jesus-the-ego set Christ-the-man free. Pilate looked a the man, and not once but three times told the Jews that he could see nothing wrong with the man but the Jews insisted: "we have our own Law and by that he must be crucified" and so Pilate, who knew nothing about their laws, handed him over to be crucified according to their law, but not until he set the man called bar-abbas free.

So now here now comes this guy (who can't read very well) and tries to tell us that Christ died after all? He's just wrong.

Crucifixion is a mythical event and is the only way to heaven. Pharisees are good at it this kind of thing and I believe that a confrontation must take place to finalize this stage in life. Having said this it might be true that they actually crucifed people in those days if they were heretics, in which case they broke their bones and fed them to the storks afterwards so they might get a speedy new life.

Thomas II

Why "a confrontation"? You mean between the pull between Individual and Universal tendencies?

There are cultures who have rituals for this sort of transformation from the "Jesus" to the "Christ"...The one depicted in the movie "A man called Horse" is one of those rituals...But that is not the only one...Probably one of the problems with our culture is that it does not have these kinds of transformational rituals...

Most, if not all the teachings available from "Jesus", are directed towards this
re-focusing of the ego (re-birth) from the INDIVIDUAL ("Jesus") to the UNIVERSAL ("Christ").

But these teachings do not originate with Jesus...The whole principle from the different forms of YOGA relates to that consciousness of UNION gained by releasing the individual for the universal consciousness...

Hindus still give deities a name...Buddhists aim at transcending even that.

You say "Crucifixion is our only way to Heaven"...
By that I must understand you mean that the releasing of the individual self for the universal self is the only way to find everlasting PEACE...Is it not?

And by PEACE I mean to find the REALIZATION of our SELF...

And by SELF I mean that which connects us to ALL THAT IS...