Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chili · 01-21-2006, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

According to the texts, the only people who knew that Jesus was born in Bethlehem were Joseph, Mary, and the magi. Joseph and the magi were never mentioned again. Did Mary ever tell anyone that Jesus was born in Bethlehem? No one knows.

Of course he was. The words of the Bible tell us so.

Bethlehem means house of bread (no manna in Bethlehem) where Joseph went for the bread of life. This journey to Bethelem represent an inner journey where Joseph was led to give an account of himself as usurper of the man he was created to be. Mary was in charge of this journey for she knew exactly when and where this appropriation took place. I mean she was there and remained stationed at the gate from where she was on the look-out for his whereabouts. Her desire was to 'mingle dust' with the firstborn when the Magi arrived which would be in the absense of Joseph when they arrived.

Nazareth was the city of God where Mary was from. Small minds call it a village because they can't find it on the map but it was big if judged by the size of it's temple that had to contain the gifts of the Magi that refurbished it.

Chili · 01-21-2006, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Fearing Atheist

John 7 has sometimes been read in another way: the irony is not that Jesus is who he says he is despite the expectation about being born and Bethlehem and actually being born outside Judea, but that he was actually born in Bethlehem and everyone thinks he's Galilean.

I dont agree, but its worth noting.

It is a necessary condition that he was born in Behtlehem of Judeah while Galilee is where the radical 'born againers' live. They mix well here since both are the 1st and 2nd beast of Rev. 13 and is the place where the wolf nurtures the lamb of God to maturity.

Johnny Skeptic · 01-21-2006, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

According to the texts, the only people who knew that Jesus was born in Bethlehem were Joseph, Mary, and the magi. Joseph and the magi were never mentioned again. Did Mary ever tell anyone that Jesus was born in Bethlehem? No one knows.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Of course he was. The words of the Bible tell us so.

Yes, the Bible that you do not believe. You are well aware that "the Bible says so," or for that matter, "the Koran says so," is not a sufficient argument. You have admitted that you only make posts at this forum for entertainment purposes. You aren't trying to convince anyone of anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Bethlehem means house of bread (no manna in Bethlehem) where Joseph went for the bread of life. This journey to Bethelem represent an inner journey where Joseph was led to give an account of himself as usurper of the man he was created to be. Mary was in charge of this journey for she knew exactly when and where this appropriation took place. I mean she was there and remained stationed at the gate from where she was on the look-out for his whereabouts. Her desire was to 'mingle dust' with the firstborn when the Magi arrived which would be in the absense of Joseph when they arrived.

A story that you believe is a myth, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Nazareth was the city of God where Mary was from. Small minds call it a village because they can't find it on the map but it was big if judged by the size of it's temple that had to contain the gifts of the Magi that refurbished it.

It doesn't make any difference where Mary was from. Do you have any credible evidence that Jesus was born in Bethlehem or not? We already know that you don't. Will you please tell us why you are so infatuated with the Bible, a book that you do not believe is true, and not with other religious books? In your viewer profile, you said that Catholics are God's favorite people. You don't really believe that. You don't have a clue what the mysteries of the universe really are. All that you are really interested in is what Christians believe, not whether or not what they believe is factual. That puts you in a distinct minority indeed.

Chili · 01-21-2006, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Yes, the Bible that you do not believe. You are well aware that "the Bible says so," or for that matter, "the Koran says so," is not a sufficient argument. You have admitted that you only make posts at this forum for entertainment purposes. You aren't trying to convince anyone of anything.

I would never want you to believe what I write, Johnny, because it seems that you are confused enough already.

Quote:

A story that you believe is a myth, right?

Yes but I know that only myth is true and I added the "only" to isolate truth from appearances.

Quote:

It doesn't make any difference where Mary was from. Do you have any credible evidence that Jesus was born in Bethlehem or not? We already know that you don't. Will you please tell us why you are so infatuated with the Bible, a book that you do not believe is true, and not with other religious books? In your viewer profile, you said that Catholics are God's favorite people. You don't really believe that. You don't have a clue what the mysteries of the universe really are. All that you are really interested in is what Christians believe, not whether or not what they believe is factual. That puts you in a distinct minority indeed.

Of course it does. Mary is important because she is the Gate of Heaven and contains our dowry. I use the word "contain" to isolate her essence from her purpose in existence which is to be united with 'her' Man in eternity. Hence the betrothal is a birth promise made at our Baptism (Catholic water only) that requires our cooperation as notorious Catholic (sinner maybe?).

No, I am not infatuated with the bible and never read the thing (I read the NT 20-some years ago and only Gen 1-3 since that time), but I am an inerrantist without reading it.

I usually write what I know is true and it is not possible for me to know what Christians believe because there are 20.000 (is it?) different kind of Christians. All I know is that they are all wrong and I have no trouble telling you this because truth is contingent upon beauty instead of fact. Hence, no Christian will ever know.

Yes, you can say that I am not looking for a peace of the ark that I might believe.

Johnny Skeptic · 01-21-2006, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

I would never want you to believe what I write, Johnny, because it seems that you are confused enough already.

Confused about what? What facts do you have to offer about anything? None at all, I am quite certain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

No, I am not infatuated with the Bible and never read the thing (I read the NT 20-some years ago and only Gen 1-3 since that time).

But you are infatuated with people who believe the Bible and not with other groups of people. Why is that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

but I am an inerrantist without reading it.

So you believe that Jesus bodily rose from the dead, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

I usually write what I know is true

Please tell us a few things that you know are true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

and it is not possible for me to know what Christians believe because there are 20,000 (is it?) different kind of Christians.

But all that you have to do in order to find out what a specific Christian believes it to ask him. Surely 99.99% of fundamentalist Christians believe that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, was born of a virgin, never sinned, bodily rose from the dead, that his shed blood and death remitted the sins of mankind, and that they will enjoy a comfortable eternal life. So, you actually do know primarily what lots of Christians believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

All I know is that they are all wrong and I have no trouble telling you this because truth is contingent upon beauty instead of fact. Hence, no Christian will ever know.

Now you have really lost me, and I assume everyone else at this forum as well. Please explain how truth is contingent upon beauty instead of fact.

hatsoff · 01-21-2006, 11:21 AM

This thread rocks!

Chili · 01-21-2006, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

But you are infatuated with people who believe the Bible and not with other groups of people. Why is that?

Moral issues is not my thing because they always seem to point a finger at someone. I like farming and ranching but this is not the place to talk about that. Besides, with the huge food surplus around these days is there is not much to talk about except that the price of food is too high.

Quote:

So you believe that Jesus bodily rose from the dead, right?

I know that Jesus rose from the dead after spending 3 days in the netherworld but why must you insist on a corporeal body if the name Jesus was just a name given to him. Don't you want to know who "him" is first of whom "it was supposed" he was the son of Joseph?

Quote:

But all that you have to do in order to find out what a specific Christian believes it to ask him. Surely 99.99% of fundamentalist Christians believe that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, was born of a virgin, never sinned, bodily rose from the dead, that his shed blood and death remitted the sins of mankind, and that they will enjoy a comfortable eternal life. So, you actually do know primarily what lots of Christians believe.

All of the above is true for Catholics except that the remittance of sin is limited to those who are baptised into the fold or "I am the way the truth and the life" would be a contradiction.

It is also worthy to note that to shed water and blood is qualifier for the use of the word blood because people do not shed water from a wound.

The difference between Catholics and Christians is that Catholics are believers while Christians are ex-believers or the condition of being Christ as the basis for our hope in faith could not be the end of our belief.

Quote:

Now you have really lost me, and I assume everyone else at this forum as well. Please explain how truth is contingent upon beauty instead of fact.

Truth is beyond facts and figures who point at truth in their beauty of resemblance. Facts just testify on behalf of truth but they are not truth itself or 3+3=6 would be greater than 2+2=4.

Chili · 01-21-2006, 08:42 PM

]

But I have told you a long time ago that the Bible is the yeast of the pharisees and that the best thing that ever could happen in America is that they would gather all the bibles from North to South and burn them in a windrow from East to West.

Chili · 01-21-2006, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Kesler

I think that it is worth noting that outside of the contradictory birth narratives in Matthew and Luke, the word Bethlehem doesn't appear in the NT except in John 7:42 which, as has been mentioned, may indicate that Jesus wasn't from Bethlehem. To the contrary, John 1:45 refers to Jesus as "Jesus of Nazareth."

Keep in mind that John contains no birth narrative; John's contention is that Jesus' "origins" are heavenly--Jesus is God in the flesh. The irony, then, is that the man thought to be disqualified by geography is actually validated by his true provenance.

And that is why Jesus was from Nazareth which is the city of God and to be from Nazareth one must be born in Bethlehem because that is where the bread of life is at. Any other place will be from carnal desire as projected in Jn.1:13.

Thomas II · 01-22-2006, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

It is also worthy to note that to shed water and blood is qualifier for the use of the word blood because people do not shed water from a wound.

Regarding the water from a wound issue...
The water came from the lung.
It was the result of PULMONARY EDEMA caused by the trauma of the crucifixion. Water in the lungs would have caused Jesus to drown.
Why would the soldier pierce Jesus' lung if he "was" already dead?
Or was he?

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01-21-2006, 11:21 AM	#6
hatsoff Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 740	This thread rocks!

01-21-2006, 08:42 PM	#8
Chili Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 11,885	] But I have told you a long time ago that the Bible is the yeast of the pharisees and that the best thing that ever could happen in America is that they would gather all the bibles from North to South and burn them in a windrow from East to West.

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