Toto

inquisitive01: Chili is a Christian.

Chili

I would never agree to that on this BB. I'll be happy to be called a Catholic and a very poor one at that.

ten to the eleventh

OK, fair enough. So the only thing one willfully decides to abandon is one's will, then the rest just falls away as a result of the loss of that will. You've got to admit that the idea of using your will to abandon your will is a difficult concept, but I guess you can use your eye to poke your eye out, so I'll buy it for the sake of discussion.

Have you, as a Christian, abandoned your will? Is this evidenced by all that Jesus says that would entail? In other words, have you foregone concern about your earthly well-being, in every way that Jesus describes? Do you have an IRA? Have you left your family behind? Did you sell everything and give the money to the poor? Jesus' words seem to demand these things rather unambiguously. Have you done them? Are you living as Jesus commanded his followers to live?

This was what I tried to illustrate earlier with an example:

Have you accepted the BARGAIN Jesus offered, and foregone any concern at all for your instantaneous existence here on earth in exchange for an eternity in paradise?

ten to the eleventh

edit: This question is posed for any Christian here.

Pseudointellectual

From the CIA Factbook Sudan is:

"Sunni Muslim 70% (in north), indigenous beliefs 25%, Christian 5% (mostly in south and Khartoum)"

Due to the small percentage of God's Favored Children™ in Sudan I really won't be surprised by your assertion regarding the degree of apathy these so-called "Christians" harbor.

Non-belief does not hinder an atheist's (or i believe any other person's) ability to speculate, imagine or reflect. There might be some exceptions but I leave it for others to mention whoever these people are.

Chili

That is the secret and is the best kept secret in the world because it is a non-rational event in that the entire faculty of reason must be abandonned. Don't just take my word for it but if you consider that the tree of Knowledge caused our alienation from would it not make sense that our alenation from the tree of Knowlegde (conscious mind) should get ius back into Eden? Allen Watts uses the term "beyond theology" = beyond words, etc. No sorry I did not, but then, I do not consider myself a Christian and so I do not have to. But then again, I still do not agree with your idea of a Christian nor the way in which we should be followers of Jesus, whom, by the way, would be called Jesuits, would they not?

I'll give you a hint here that Jesus was not the son of God and to crucify him was the right thing to do and the best thing the Jews ever did.

ten to the eleventh

OK, no more hints. Just say it.

Chili

Well if Jesus was an imposter who needed to die lest the becomes the final imposter who would be worse than the first (Mt.27:64) would it not follow that those who follow Jesus are also imposters or maybe even enriched imposters until they die? Those who claim to be Christians and proclaim their own richess and security would be the enriched imposters because Jesus himself did not become Christ until he died -- or they would have called him Christ instead of Jesus.

inquisitive01

One couldn't tell it from Chili's postings. :huh:

Chili

Different isn't it? Don't forget, I don't comdemn you are any Christian but just the method and the lingo that goes with it. I bet we could be the best of friends . . . until you tell how Jesus saved you. The worst part here is how it is perverting the Catholic church and its tradition.

inquisitive01

What exactly do Catholics believe then? Is it based on the Bible, which clearly states that Jesus is the Son of God, or something else? I don't understand what it is that Catholics believe or don't believe, in other words.