sonofone

Johnny isn't it also true that you would not accept a God who promised to save all as the universalist Christians believe?

George S

I am answering for myself, not Johnny.

A universalist Christian or non-Christian God who is in the preservation of consciousness business could exist, I suppose. In fact my theology is conditional in that I hold that IF there is a salvation's God at all then He would, if He is fair, treat every consciousness the same universally. All consciousness, not just human consciousness would be preserved alike. No special place for humanity; to hold that humanity is the point of life is arrogant solipsism. Dogs and cats and aliens and humans all together discussing what their life was like.

Chidori

Thanks again for answering.

Well, one of the things that deconverted me was God's loathing of women, endorsing slavery, and eternal torture because I couldn't conceive of wanting a personal relationship with a God that thought I was less than because I had a vagina, or that billions of my fellow human beings should be condemned to eternal torture, so it did affect my "personal relationship".

I guess that's where we might differ, I wasn't self centric in my belief. I gave a shit how God viewed my fellow humans, and it was clear he didn't care, from my point of view.

It wasn't just that though. Reading the Bible cover to cover was the nail in the coffin, but I was having doubts to begin with.

sonofone

See this is the problem if you will I have with people of faith,Christians included.Faith places you in a role of submission.That is you are asked to deny what is rational in favor of the irrational.Now I get why a person who is agnostic,or atheist would remain such on this basis.

Yet I have less tolerance for a person of faith,refusing to believe things that defy there own sense of right and wrong.Either you submit yourself by faith,or you don't.If you do,then you take the good with the bad.You don't get to pick and choose what you believe and don't or else just remain an atheist or agnostic.

To take on Christ and experience God however short the duration and then turn your back on him because you saw some things that did not make sense,makes no sense to me.Either you have genuine faith or you don't.

This for me is the answer to the riddle I put forth concerning Adams disobedience. There sin was the absence of faith.Faith is the thing you have when you lack the facts or evidence.Adam lacked the facts that one choice was better than the other,but he was given a command with consequences certain.

If he had faith he would have remained obedient by simply believing if God said don't do it,I will not do it.

Just the like the bumper sticker which says God said it and that settles it whether you believe it or not.Whatever is not of faith is sin.So the moment your reasoning elevates itself beyond what God states you leave faith and enter into sin.

sonofone

Johnny I guess I misunderstood the purpose of the op and should not have posted to begin with.I read would any fundamentalist Christians like to discuss inerrancy,as an invitation to do just that.

I wasn't aware that a simple admission that the bible does contain errors would kill or disqualify me from discussing the point any further. I am sort of thick headed so maybe thats why I made this mistake.

I thought discussing some potential flaws was the intent of the op.which is the reason I asked about the Adam question,as this for me represents one of the potential flaws I admit to the bible having.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to sonofone: I still stand by my argument that if the Bible said that God will send everyone to hell, you would reject it because your emotional perceived self-interest would cause you to reject any claims that you did not believe would ultimately benefit you.

What good was the Bible for millions of people who died who never heard of the God of the Bible?

If Old Testament Jews appointed themselves to be God's chosen people, that explains why Christianity, Islam, and Judaism exist today. In addition, it explains why God turned his back on everyone except for Jews during Old Testament times. Further, it explains why belief in the God of the Bible originated in Palestine and not somewhere else.

If the God of the Bible does not exist, that explains why the Gospel message was spread entirely by humans, at least as far as we know, and why even today some people have not heard the Gospel message.

rhutchin

What a joke!

Johnny Skeptic

On the contrary, you do not have any idea what heaven and hell will be like if they exist, especially hell. Many Christians disagree regarding what hell is like, and many of them claim that hell does not exist.

Are you discounting a reasonable possibility that God would be able to convince some skeptics that is was reasonable for him to injure and kill people and innocent animals with hurricanes? Is it your position that it is not reasonable for skeptics to question such behavior by God? You would certainly question such behavior from anyone else, but why? What makes God any different from anyone else except for his power. Is it your position that might makes right?

Getting back to inerrancy, what evidence do you have that the Bible is inerrant, and that God inspried the origianals?

Why did God break his promise to give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar as a compensation for his failure to defeat Tyre? At the very least, the claim is needlessly confusing and misleading.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to rhutchin: If the Bible said that God will send everyone to hell, you would reject it because your emotional perceived self-interest would cause you to reject any claims that you did not believe would ultimately benefit you.

What good was the Bible for millions of people who died who never heard of the God of the Bible?

If Old Testament Jews appointed themselves to be God's chosen people, that explains why Christianity, Islam, and Judaism exist today. In addition, it explains why God turned his back on everyone except for Jews during Old Testament times. Further, it explains why belief in the God of the Bible originated in Palestine and not somewhere else.

If the God of the Bible does not exist, that explains why the Gospel message was spread entirely by humans, at least as far as we know, and why even today some people have not heard the Gospel message.

Chidori

I'll take reason over faith any day of the week. My faith in God placed me in the position of believing there was something wrong with me simply because I am human, much less female. Deconverting felt a bit like leaving an abusive relationship, from my point of view.