RUmike

I'm looking for evidence from the synoptic gospels that tends to show Jesus was NOT God.

For example,

Mt 19:17: And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good;..."

Or less tangible evidence, such as how Mark implies Jesus was God's son only by adoption (and thus certainly not equal to God himself).

I would also be interested in any evidence from these gospels tending to the belief that Jesus is God, if there is any. If anyone could help me compile some info on this I would appreciate it. I'm trying to put together an article regarding how early Christians, and especially the first three 'evangelists,' did not believe Jesus was God. Unless of course I am proved wrong.

EDIT: Or if anyone could just give me his or her general opinion on the idea that the Synoptics don't think Jesus is God would be appreciated also.

Zeichman

If you're looking for a counterpoint, the rather lengthy "Lord Jesus Christ" by Larry Hurtado argues that all early Christians (including the Q community and non-orthodox) were binitarians. I'm not convinced, but if you've got the time and money, you may want to check it out. I would ultimately agree with your thesis.

Amaleq13

Read every quote about God attributed to Jesus in the Gospels. Collect the ones where he is clearly referring to himself and God as separate beings. And don't forget Jesus praying in the Garden or on the cross where, apparently, he is accusing himself of abandoning himself and/or asking himself to remove the burden from himself.

Helpmabob

Be careful not to interpret Jesus humbly referring to Himself as less than God, as evidence from Mk, Mt, Lk that implies Jesus isn't God. It's true that Jesus alone was not the whole manifestation of God, although He was fully God and fully man. The Father, Son and Holy Sprirt 'trinity' are generally considered to comprise God. This is a good way for man to understand God whom he can never on this earth fully comprehend: But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' " [Romans 9:20]

gregor

Be careful not to interpret the Bible to say that Jesus was a co-equal part of God, as that fiction was invented in 325 of the common era by a slim majority of ANE priests.

RUmike

But don't you think that if Jesus was indeed God, and Mark, Matt or Luke knew about it, it would be emphasized considerably in their gospels? I find the idea in the synoptics, at best, to be merely hinted at.

I also find it extremely peculiar that the church today believes, and has for some time, that the entire mission of Christ was for people to believe in him so that they may have eternal life, and yet, Matthew, Mark, and Luke never heard of such a thing. Interesting, isn't it?

Helpmabob

Hi RUmike
Jesus makes it clear He is the Son of God in the three gospels without bragging about it (let's be honest, in His position, we would be tempted to blow our trumpets a bit about it?) -
When Christ was asked: "Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God." He replied:
"I am." [Mark 14:60-62]
"Yes, it is as you say." [Matt. 26: 63-65]
"You are right in saying I am." [Luke 22:67-70]
I am not sure of the right answer, but can offer the following:
1. Jesus' mission purpose in the first three gospels was primarily to teach people, to tell them things, but He used parables: Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet:
"I will open my mouth in parables,
I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world." [Matthew 13:34,35]

2. The people asked for miracles, but these would not be given, why then tell them that He was the Son of God, would that make them believe? A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away. [Matthew 16:4]

3. The disciples were weak, tired and scared - they fell asleep when Jesus went to pray, they deserted Him at the trial, and although 'their sprits were strong, their bodies were weak'. Maybe to know it was God before them would be too much?

4. Matthew does recognise this much about Jesus: In his name the nations will put their hope." [Matthew 12:21]

5. Then there is the resurrection frmo the dead: "...and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." [Luke 24:47-49] Notice how they were told to wait in the city until they had been clothed with smoething from on high. i.e. this is at the end of the gospel, but they still had not had full a understanding of what had been revealed through them up to that point. This was left to John's gospel.

Howard Beale

Helpmabob:

Jesus tells us to pray to “Our Father�. So, though he says he is the son of God, he also says that we are children of God. He doesn’t say, “I’m the son of God and you’re not.� He makes it clear that we are all children of God – that includes him.

Jesus spoke quote directly on a number of occasions – even in Matthew’s Gospel. It seems that the author was referring to the specific instant at the seaside.

Because he said they were children of God too.

Conjecture.

The author was quoting Old Testament Prophesy here, not Jesus.

Again, our Father as well.

Zeichman

One thing I might request is that you not phrase it "Evidence from Synoptics that Jesus isn't God", but rather "Evidence that early Christians did not regard Jesus as Incarnate" because really, I'm not sure that this IS evidence against the incarnation, just that it was a later development in Church History.

And Howard, there is a difference from being A Child of God and THE Son of God. Divine Sonship of Jesus is blatant in the Infancy Narratives and Baptismal scenes.

Howard Beale

If I am asked if I am the son of Mr. Beale, the answer is yes, Mr. Beale is my father. But, Mr. Beale has more children and Mr. Beale is "our father". Either there are two fathers in heaven or Jesus' father is our father. You have to twist things really around to come up with any other understanding of the words of Jesus. Seems to me he was pretty clear.