Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 05-02-2011, 05:01 PM

On today's Bible Geek broadcast (May 2), Robert M. Price read with relish from Isaiah 14, using what appears to be the translation by J. B. Phillips

Quote:

4b How has the Tyrant fallen,
And the Terror ceased to be!

5 The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked
And the sceptre of those who ruled,

6 Which struck the peoples in fury
With never-ending blows;

Which trod down the nations in anger,
In unrelenting wrath.

7 Now the whole earth lies quietly at peace,
And a song is on every lip.

8 The very cypresses are joyful,
The cedars of Lebanon cry aloud,
Since you were laid low,
None comes now to cut us down!

9 The underworld is all agog
To meet you when you come,
Summoning up ghosts for you
Those who were leaders on earth;
Raising from their thrones
The kings of the nations

10 To greet you, one and all,

And say, So you too are as weak as we are,
You have become like one of us!

11 Your glory is brought down to the underworld
With all your sounds of music.

A mattress of maggots lies ready
With a blanket of worms to cover you.

12 How you have fallen from heaven on high,
You shining son of the dawn!

How you are cut down to the ground,
You who laid all nations low!

13 You who once said in your heart,
I will scale the skies;

I will set up my throne on high
Above the stars of God,
That I may rule on the mount of the gods,
In the far high places of the North.

14 I will climb above the towering clouds
And be like God Most High!

15 Yet down to the underworld shall you be brought
To the dark, deep places of the Pit!

16 The onlookers stare hard at you
Considering you with narrowed eyes

Is this the man who caused the earth to tremble
And its kingdoms to quake in fear,

17 Who turned the world into a wilderness
And its cities into heaps of rubble,
Who never set a prisoner free

18 The kings of the nations sleep in glory,
Each in his own tomb;

19 But you are thrown out without a grave,
Like a hated monstrous birth,

Flung down among the corpses
Of the men who were slain by the sword,
Those who go down to the depths of the Pit,
A carcase under men's feet.
20a You shall not join your fathers in the grave!

20b For you have ruined your country,
And destroyed your own people.
May the names of this evil man's sons
Never be heard upon earth !

21 Prepare his sons for slaughter,
To die for their father's guilt,
Lest they rise up and possess the earth,
And cover the world with their cities.

PinkZinc · 05-02-2011, 11:02 PM

News Flash:Quran mistranslated. Osama to receive 72 y.o virgin.

Chili · 05-03-2011, 08:34 AM

. . . and it does not say much for Price.

EarlDoherty · 05-03-2011, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

. . . and it does not say much for Price.

Oh? What's the bee in your bonnet this time? I think the quote is amazingly apt and applaud Price for perceiving it. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if our evangelicals seized on this passage and touted it as another example of the bible's ongoing prophetic relevance.

(Love verse 19!)

Earl Doherty

Toto · 05-03-2011, 09:50 AM

The Philips translation sounds much more on point than any of the standard translations, but it's not a translation that the evangelicals would necessarily approve.

And Robert M. Price reads it with the appropriate prophetic fervor. It's worth a listen.

Chili · 05-03-2011, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarlDoherty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

. . . and it does not say much for Price.

Oh? What's the bee in your bonnet this time? I think the quote is amazingly apt and applaud Price for perceiving it. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if our evangelicals seized on this passage and touted it as another example of the bible's ongoing prophetic relevance.

(Love verse 19!)

Earl Doherty

With all respect to Price seizing the opportunity, to rejoice over his early death shows vengeance with possibly wrath to follow if the evangelicals get a chance to do so.

He would have died anyway but since in the original version he goes to the 'netherworld' without burial and not the grave (NAB 9, 11 and 15 where he will set the captives free), he died much like Lazarus indeed . . . and will never be one with them in the grave (19-20). IOW, he goes to heaven instead of the grave.

So this particular translation warp makes it evil instead and is why I say that 'they deserve each other', always looking ahead for better days while not realizing that in the same way as Judas spilled his guts so must Babylon fall in each one of us first . . . and the Lord of Host will sweep up it's remnant and remember it no more. I.e. not just be forgiven but feel forgiven = release of mephis..

EarlDoherty · 05-03-2011, 02:31 PM

Am I the only one who can't understand a thing Chili says?

Not that it matters, I guess.

Earl Doherty

hjalti · 05-03-2011, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarlDoherty

Am I the only one who can't understand a thing Chili says?

Not that it matters, I guess.

Earl Doherty

I don't understand a thing he says (but I don't actually see his comments anymore).

Chili · 05-04-2011, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarlDoherty

Am I the only one who can't understand a thing Chili says?

Not that it matters, I guess.

Earl Doherty

Well I'll be fair and say that I never read Isaiah but I had a friend who did and together we knew enough.

Not that it will matter much but before the temple can be destroyed Babylon must fall and religion must fail, and to be abandoned it must be alienated to its very core so that the alien can be counted in the house of Jacob as shown in Is. 13 (of which Luke 1:5-25 is the internal efficient cause assimilation driving it), so it can be added to the house of Jacob in the preamble of 14, and please be mindful here that there is no temple to be found there (Rev.21:22) and so all human endeavor must come to sudden stop in the mind of the oppressor, including the very religion that got him thusfar so that Cana can follow and the temple be cleansed after that.

Now if eidolons (eidetic images) can be called shepherds and their accumilations called sheep, the incipient 'ideas' can be called babies that so will be aborted and smashed on the rocks of achievement that got the oppressor thusfar . . . and this all to show that total abandonment must precede the 'day of the Lord' and that is what the insulent song against the king of Babylon is all about.

PhilosopherJay · 05-04-2011, 11:42 AM

Other people with a different point of view might consider this appropriate,

Isaiah 41:10-13

Quote:

10 Don’t be afraid, for I am with you.
Don’t be discouraged, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you and help you.
I will hold you up with my victorious right hand.

11 “See, all your angry enemies lie there,
confused and humiliated.
Anyone who opposes you will die
and come to nothing.
12 You will look in vain
for those who tried to conquer you.
Those who attack you
will come to nothing.
13 For I hold you by your right hand—
I, the Lord your God.

Still others might consider this appropriate from 1 Corinthians:

Quote:

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed! 52 It will happen in a moment, in the blink of an eye, when the last trumpet is blown. For when the trumpet sounds, those who have died will be raised to live forever. And we who are living will also be transformed. 53 For our dying bodies must be transformed into bodies that will never die; our mortal bodies must be transformed into immortal bodies.

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]
55 O death, where is your victory?
O death, where is your sting?[e]”

56 For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power. 57 But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ.

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05-02-2011, 11:02 PM	#2
PinkZinc Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 12	News Flash:Quran mistranslated. Osama to receive 72 y.o virgin.

05-03-2011, 08:34 AM	#3
Chili Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 11,885	. . . and it does not say much for Price.

05-03-2011, 09:50 AM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	The Philips translation sounds much more on point than any of the standard translations, but it's not a translation that the evangelicals would necessarily approve. And Robert M. Price reads it with the appropriate prophetic fervor. It's worth a listen.

05-03-2011, 02:31 PM	#7
EarlDoherty Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,435	Am I the only one who can't understand a thing Chili says? Not that it matters, I guess. Earl Doherty

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