Freethought & Rationalism Archive

arnoldo · 01-30-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

From the Encylocopedia Judaica: In the years following the capture of Jerusalem, Nebuzanezer waged a war in Phoenicia against Tyre.which according to Josephus lasted 13 years (Jos,Ant,10:181-2:Jos. Apion,1:154-60)

Quote:

From Encyclopedia Judaice: Nebuzanezar must have been aware of Egypt's part in inciting the vassal states to revolt against Babylon and of it's desire to establish power in Palestine and Syria. He therefore attacked Egypt too

After Nebby waged a 13 year siege on tyre he completed destroyed it. The princes of Tyre were taken into captivity into Babylon. Afterwards Nebby went into Egypt. This is historical fact.

makerowner · 01-30-2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

From the Encylocopedia Judaica: In the years following the capture of Jerusalem, Nebuzanezer waged a war in Phoenicia against Tyre.which according to Josephus lasted 13 years (Jos,Ant,10:181-2:Jos. Apion,1:154-60)

Quote:

From Encyclopedia Judaice: Nebuzanezar must have been aware of Egypt's part in inciting the vassal states to revolt against Babylon and of it's desire to establish power in Palestine and Syria. He therefore attacked Egypt too

After Nebby waged a 13 year siege on tyre he completed destroyed it. The princes of Tyre were taken into captivity into Babylon. Afterwards Nebby went into Egypt. This is historical fact.

Neither of your quotes says anything of the sort. All that the first quote says is that the siege lasted 13 years. All that the second quote says is that he attacked Egypt. No mention of victory or destruction in either.

spin · 01-30-2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by makerowner

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

After Nebby waged a 13 year siege on tyre he completed destroyed it. The princes of Tyre were taken into captivity into Babylon. Afterwards Nebby went into Egypt. This is historical fact.

Neither of your quotes says anything of the sort. All that the first quote says is that the siege lasted 13 years. All that the second quote says is that he attacked Egypt. No mention of victory or destruction in either.

Sadly, we've come to expect this sort of thing. He's just carrying over the same stuff that got the Tyre thread closed for lack of his content.

spin

arnoldo · 01-30-2008, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by makerowner

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

After Nebby waged a 13 year siege on tyre he completed destroyed it. The princes of Tyre were taken into captivity into Babylon. Afterwards Nebby went into Egypt. This is historical fact.

Neither of your quotes says anything of the sort. All that the first quote says is that the siege lasted 13 years. All that the second quote says is that he attacked Egypt. No mention of victory or destruction in either.

Obviously Nebby went down into Egypt because all the wealth of Tyre was lost to him once it was transfered to the island. In fact Alexander the Great later on destroyed Tyre and acquired it's wealth.

makerowner · 01-30-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by makerowner

Neither of your quotes says anything of the sort. All that the first quote says is that the siege lasted 13 years. All that the second quote says is that he attacked Egypt. No mention of victory or destruction in either.

Obviously Nebby went down into Egypt because all the wealth of Tyre was lost to him once it was transfered to the island. In fact Alexander the Great later on destroyed Tyre and acquired it's wealth.

No, not 'obviously'. In fact, the much better explanation, the one that matches all the archeological and historical evidence is that Nebuchadrezzar "got no wages" because he failed to conquer the city. Tyre was the island. That's the key point that you're still ignoring, even though every single source you try to find to support your position actually says the same thing we've been saying all along. Don't you think it's dishonest to keep saying this even when you've been proved wrong?

Sheshonq · 01-30-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by makerowner

Neither of your quotes says anything of the sort. All that the first quote says is that the siege lasted 13 years. All that the second quote says is that he attacked Egypt. No mention of victory or destruction in either.

Obviously Nebby went down into Egypt

Except there is no evidence to support any invasion of Egypt. Or even a campaign there, much less an invasion.

Quote:

because all the wealth of Tyre was lost to him once it was transfered to the island.

The wealth was on the island in the first place; it didn't need to be transferred there.

Quote:

In fact Alexander the Great later on destroyed Tyre and acquired it's wealth.

Alexander did not destroy Tyre.

Johnny Skeptic · 01-30-2008, 03:52 PM

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Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Hello ladies and gents supporters and crits, the skeptics has been riding me about this prophecy of the 40 year desolation of Egypt. To them this one certainly proves that Ezekiel is a false prophet, and proves the bible untrustworthy. But again they are sooo incorrect as usual. When reading this prophecy there are hints which shows that this is a future prediction, but don't take my word for it lets turn to the text.

One reason for this desolation is ofcourse because of their treatment of Israel:

"And all the inhabitants of Egypt shall know that I am the Lord, because they have been a staff of reed to the house of Israel. When they took hold of you by your hand, you did break, and tore all thier shoulder: and when they leaned upon you, you broke, and made all their loins to be at a stand."

(This seems to imply some sort of betrayal by the Egyptians when Israel leaned on them for support).

In Chapter 30 of Ezekiel according to the text, this happens in the day of the Lord:

"For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near, a cloudy day; IT SHALL BE THE TIME OF THE HEATHEN (ARMEGEDDON)" Hint 1

Hint 2 (Armegeddon) "And when I shall put you out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars there dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over you, and set darkness over your land, says the Lord God. Ch.32

Hint 3 (Armegeddon) "When I shall make the land of Egypt desolate, and the country shall be destitute of that whereof it was full, when I shall smite all them that dwell there, THEN THEY SHALL KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD." CH.32

HINT4 (Armegeddon) In the Book of Joel "Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about....Multitudes , multitudes in the valley of decision: FOR THE DAY OF THE LORD is near in the valley of decision. THE SUN AND THE MOON SHALL BE DARKENED, AND THE STARS SHALL WITHDRAW THEIR SHINING....EGYPT SHALL BE A DESOLATION, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, FOR THE VIOLENCE AGAINST THE CHILDREN OF JUDAH, BECAUSE THEY HAVE SHED INNOCENT BLOOD IN THEIR LAND." jOEL 3

Egypt is to be conquered also by the king of the north. Wait a minute now Nebuchadnezzar is the king of the north right? No. The king of the north is this mysterious prince called Gog. This is what the text say of Gog:

"Are you he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servents the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring you against them?" Eze 38 But I have never seen any reference of Gog by the prophets of the texts as being the king of the north. It was Nebuchadnezzar in Jeremiah who was coming from the north. Nebuchadnezzar is not the king of the north, but the future acts of the king of the north is told through Nebucahdnezzar as well as Antiochus in Daneil, the Assyrian in Isaiah. This king will also smite Egypt.

"Thus says the Lord God, I will also make a multitude of Egypt to cease by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. He and his people with him the terrible of the nations, shall be brought to destroy the land.." Eze 30

"And the Egyptians will I give over into the hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over them, says the Lord, the Lord of host." Isaiah 19

"He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape." Daniel 12

After the 40 year desolation and rule of the king of the north: "And the Lord shall smite Egypt: "He shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the Lord, and He shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them....In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: whom the Lord of hosts shall bless, saying 'Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of My hands, and Israel My inheritance." Isaiah 19

Conclusion: The desolation of Egypt is future, and it will end through conversion.

Rather, any rational God who wanted people to believe that he can predict the future would have made many indisputable predictions thousands of years ago instead of many disputable predictions that could not possibly benefit him or anyone else. No sensible motives = no God of the Bible.

Darklighter · 01-30-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Obviously Nebby went down into Egypt because all the wealth of Tyre was lost to him once it was transfered to the island. In fact Alexander the Great later on destroyed Tyre and acquired it's wealth.

Nebby FAILED to inflict significant damage to Egypt, if he even followed through with his plan to attack it. Alexander didn't destroy Tyre, and neither did Nebby. Tyre IS the island NOT the mainland. Just ask Ezekiel.

Johnny Skeptic · 01-30-2008, 04:01 PM

Message to sugarhitman: Why did God break his promise to give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar?

Johnny Skeptic · 01-30-2008, 04:03 PM

Message to sugarhitman: If all that you are trying to reasonably prove is that God is able to predict the future, I will concede for the sake of argument that God can predict the future, but I still reject him because he is immoral. No decent man would ever accept a God just because he is powerful. Why are you so interested in God's power? You ought to be more interested in his character than in his power. Power does not have anything to do with character.

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01-30-2008, 04:01 PM	#69
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	Message to sugarhitman: Why did God break his promise to give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar?

01-30-2008, 04:03 PM	#70
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	Message to sugarhitman: If all that you are trying to reasonably prove is that God is able to predict the future, I will concede for the sake of argument that God can predict the future, but I still reject him because he is immoral. No decent man would ever accept a God just because he is powerful. Why are you so interested in God's power? You ought to be more interested in his character than in his power. Power does not have anything to do with character.

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