storytime

This is mostly for Christians but anyone can participate in answering to the problem of non-performance.


Jesus said those who believe in him would be able to do the same miracles that he did and more.

If you believe in Jesus what's your excuse for not healing the sick, restoring sight to the blind, curing the lame so that they can again walk, and let us not forget resurrecting dead rotting and stinking corpses.

Jesus said all power in heaven and earth was given to him and he passed that power on to you who claim his name; so again, what is your excuse for not doing the same miracles that Jesus performed and more?

Jesus said that if you had only the faith amounting to that of a mustard seed, you'd be able to move mountains.

If you believe in Jesus, why haven't you been able to perform as he declared that you should? Maybe you're just lazy and don't have the time to really concentrate on miracles. Maybe you're waiting for Benny Hinn or some other televangelist to do your power-working miracles for you?

Would you care to share your reasons why you haven't been performing the same miracles as Jesus did or more?

This is serious stuff. Many points to ponder. I don't think I've seen an indepth examination of why Christians are not able to meet their power given works of Christ. Maybe it's because they really don't believe??

mountainman

* Given up drinking wine.
* Given up hanging out in the houses of Publicans.
* Given up cursing fig trees

Andykiwi

This was one of the first serious questions I asked myself when I was still (thinking of myself as) a Christian.

...It led me to explore Pentecostalism...
While there I only saw fraud and misguided hopes.

Joan of Bark

They're also supposed to be able to drink 'any deadly poison', and it won't harm them. Why don't Christians prove their faith by trying that one?

storytime

But didn't Jesus say to drink a little wine for thy stomach's sake? Medicinal purposes was a good enough excuse I suppose. And if you could turn water into wine, you'd be a very rich man today.

storytime

Did you try experimenting with speaking in tongues to vent your frustration?

storytime

Some do. Drinking antifreeze, lamp oil, kerosene, is still part of the "holy ghost" meetings among some southern pentecostals. Oh, and snake handling is still popular in the "taking up serpents" ritual. But these are testing proof of their faith, not miracles. If someone recovers from the poisons or snake bite then the rewarded miracle is that they survived.

Atheos

When I was a conservative fundie preacher my response to that would have been something to the effect of:

The passage to which you refer, "Mark 16:17-18", must be understood in the context of God's plan.

God has never wanted his people to live in a state of confusion, so during transitional times he took steps to ensure that people had the means to know who to listen to.

For example, when Moses brought forth a new law, he was given the ability to perform miracles so that the people could know that he spoke in behalf of God.

Similarly, when Jesus entrusted the disciples to spread the gospel all over the world he knew there would be rampant skepticism and downright opposition.

So he gave those original twelve apostles special powers. They could perform all kinds of miracles, and they could confer a limited miraculous gift on someone by "laying on" of their hands. This way, during the transitional period between the established ("Old Testament") law and the completion of the bible which would establish the new one, people could know who to listen to because they were able to confirm their message through miracles.

Evidently, only the apostles had the ability to lay their hands on others to confer miraculous power. And the individual receiving such a gift would receive only one particular type of power. As an example, they might be able to speak in tongues but not necessarily interpret tongues. Or they might be able to heal diseases. Or they might receive the gift of prophecy.

In I Corinthians chapters 12 and 13 the writer is discussing these various gifts and their usage in the congregation. It appeared that some of the people who had "flashier" (and more useful) gifts (such as the ability to heal diseases or perform other miracles) would get lots of attention while others who had only gotten, say, the ability to speak in tongues wouldn't have much to do. After all, if everyone in the assembly shared the same language, what would be the point of someone addressing them in a different language?

So the writer made a simple rule: If there was nobody there who could understand the tongue-speaker then the tongue-speaker was to refrain from using his gift.

But the writer also told them of a time in the not-too-distant-future when all those gifts would disappear. "For now we know in part, we prophecy in part. But when that which is complete is come, that which is in part shall be done away with".

These various miracles were (once again) God's way of making sure that the people knew who to listen to and who to be skeptical of during the transitional time when everything pertaining to the new law had been established.

But once it was all established the miracles would go away. The completion of the bible made it no longer necessary to have these miracles. This period was over when the apostles all died and the people they had laid their hands on died. At that point the miracles ceased.

It's a tidy rationalization, but there's a lot of question begging and interpretive license involved. And of course there's the standard hermeneutic principle, "If the surface meaning of a 'difficult' passage conflicts with a 'simple' passage or reality, then you must reinterpret the 'difficult' passage so that it complies. Because the bible is never in error".

Problem is, there's nothing 'difficult' about Matthew 16:17-18. The only difficulty about it is the fact that it doesn't comply with reality.

Civil1z@tion

This one time I got a girl working at a Dunken Donuts to give me a free donut...oh wait that's wasn't because of Jesus, that was just because I'm sexy.

Yea I got nothing.

arnoldo

This.