Barefoot Bree

Are other modern towns/cities/locations of similar biblical stature to Nazareth also in such doubt? Is Jerusalem known to be where it is now? Bethlehem? Others?

spamandham

If it's been continuously inhabited, it seems there would be little reason to doubt. In the case of Jerusalem, hasn't archaeological evidence of the temple been found (I understand the wailing wall may be disputed)?

An interesting question.

semiopen

This is Temple_Denial as opposed to Holocaust Denial

http://www.adl.org/Anti_semitism/arab/temple_denial.asp

The ADL is not exactly an impartial judge but the wall seems to be a legitimate part of the 2nd temple although maybe later, historically, than many Jews may think.

Western_Wall

19 BCE, Jesus might have gone to the 50th anniversary celebration.

Maybe my great grandchildren will go the 1000th anniversary of the earliest clear Jewish use of the term.

Jeffrey Gibson

So far as I can see I never asked whether, let alone questioned the fact that, Helena had the title Augusta. In fact, I provided evidence that she did (in the quote from Eusebius that I have).

I asked if she actually was empress. So it seems you are putting words in my mouth to make your snipe.

And I am puzzled, even if I did, quietly or otherwise "slide over" this fact, how this would show that I was guilty of lacking expertise.

If it shows anyone lacking it, it's you -- in your claim that Helena was the Empress of the Roman Empire because she was given the title "Augusta", especially in the light of the facts

1. that Helena was given the title not to invest her with actual Imperial power (save over the fiscus, and this for limited purposes), but to raise her station within the Imperial court which had been degraded when Constantius put her aside to marry Maximian's daughter Theodora,

2. that the title was used before Constantine not only of the mothers of emperors, but of their wives, daughters, grandmothers, and sisters as well, and did not in those instances signify that they were Empresses of the Roman Empire (cf Tac Annals. 1, 8; 15, 23; 4, 16; 12, 26; Histories2, 89, Suetonius. Calig. 10; 15; 23; Claud. 3; Ner. 35, Dom. 3; Plin. Pan. 84, 6 See too Marleen B. Flory "The Meaning of Augusta in the Julio-Claudian Period" AJAH 13 [1988] 113-138 )

3. that, as Lewis and Short and the OLD note, the title are honourific ones, bearing connotations along the lines of Imperial Majesty, Imperial Highness, but not Empress, let alone that the one bearing the title could exercise authority in her own name and issue respripts, etc.

You most certainly do. And not to your credit.

Jeffrey

Toto

Jeffrey - so what did you mean by this?

"Empress" is, of course, an English word used to translate Augusta and "Empress Helena" is the usual way of referring to Helena, the mother of Constantine, unless, of course, one prefers "St. Helena." I think is is assumed that Helena wielded power through her influence over her son, not from any formal power.

Why did you question it?

show_no_mercy

In the FRDB terms and agreements, there's a small disclosure saying that anyone who posts at the BC&H board acknowledges that they are an expert in the fields of archaeology, historiography, Old/New Testament studies, and all periods of Greek, Hebrew, and Latin languages.

I can't see how you could have missed that. :huh:

GakuseiDon

1. Cana -- apparently there are a few candidates that may have been the Biblical Cana
2. Capernaum -- similar to Nazareth in some ways: a founding in the Second Century BCE, abandoned around 750 CE.

spamandham

I'm not sure I get the contention with referring to her as "Empress" either. This seems to be a widespread and ordinary way of referring to her.

Jeffrey Gibson

Is it? That's not what the OED says:

And in any case, even if it were "the usual" way of translating it doesn't mean it is an accurate way of translating it. Why for instance don't Lewis and Short say so? Why doesn't the OLD say so?

It is? Usual among whom? When?

How nice of you to think so. But assumed by whom? And does Empress express that idea?

Gee ... Could it be because Augusta doesn't mean Empress and the fact that she wasn't the Empress of the Roman Empire any more than the grandmothers and daughters of Emperors who bore/were given that appellation were?

Jeffrey

spamandham

Try plugging 'empress helena' into google books, and you will find over 24,000 hits that use the expression. Perhaps you should devote the rest of your life to contacting all those authors and giving them Greek spankings.