Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jim Larmore · 11-13-2003, 12:34 PM

You have your opinions and beliefs based on the information you embrace, but I'm not going to let you or anyone else direct where my search may go . The flood may be looney to you but to me I still have to convince myself that its not a possibility by investigating the evidence and I mean both sides of the arguement.

I know you and others (Dr.X or ed. ) have already pointed me to web-sites which tell of the impossibility of the flood and I'll read them but I will also give the other side equal consideration. I also would like to do some field research on my own too. Theres a lot of info out there and it'll take time to go thru it.

Too put it like ed. would ....."its hard to stuff ten pounds of crude in a five pound can"

Mathetes · 11-13-2003, 01:37 PM

Best luck.

Soul Invictus · 11-13-2003, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Larmore
I am about finding what the truth is and I too will accept where it leads me, I am not going to jump into anyones camp without extensive information which leads to a beyond a "reasonable" doubt conclusion. I have started from the christian mind set but I am a scientist too. I believe these two things can be compatible.

I was raised a christian so there is a lot of traditonal beliefs which I have that may not be accurate, i.e. since I've been researching the Bible I too have found a lot of inconsistencies. Dr.X made some accusations about Moses I'm checking out. My first search on the net is showing where the torah or pentatuech has some inconsistencies on geneology and other really minor things.

The critics make a huge deal out of some of these things ( maybe too big ) but I think I know why . There are many christians who claim the Bible is inerrant, I don't. I believe the one who inspired it is but the men who wrote is just as prone to making mistakes as we are today. The Bible is a compilation and an anthology spanning several thousand years how could it be otherwise considering how many hands and minds have touched the "soma" of it. I guess you could say at this point if I were to put into simple math, my persuation for the Bible is 100% for inspiration but around 50% for accuracy in the historical perspective. With such ancient writings its really difficult to make sweeping conclusions however the work continues in both camps.

I would say my basic beliefs have not changed so far with my research. I still believe the prophecies, especially after doing my research on Daniel and I believe in Jesus. I believe He was the messiah.

Jim Larmore,

If anything, your approach is commendable. You at least appear interested in learning to about misconceptions that are rigidly embraced. It's always nice to find someone with an open mind, and willingness to put some bias to the side. I will check out your posts in E/C and science and skepticism to see what questions you may have posed that went unanswered. If you could, please send URLS for those threads you were involved in.

Regards,

Soul Invictus

Jim Larmore · 11-14-2003, 05:55 AM

Its been a long time I don't know how or where it will be. The questions would be in the area of where life started , why the isomers of amino acids are all one way, stuff like that.

Steven Carr · 11-14-2003, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Larmore
You have your opinions and beliefs based on the information you embrace, but I'm not going to let you or anyone else direct where my search may go . The flood may be looney to you but to me I still have to convince myself that its not a possibility by investigating the evidence and I mean both sides of the arguement.

That was done 150 years ago, and the Flood was refuted for the most part by clergymen. Victorian clergy had a lot of time on their hands and many were keen amateur naturalists, in a time when there were few professional naturalists.

Read about Lous Agassiz, the last truly great creationist naturalist. Even he abandoned a Flood.....

Jim Larmore · 11-14-2003, 06:50 AM

If I abandon the flood per se' I will have to abandon the entire Bible as a credible source of inspiration from my creator. Even Jesus talked about the flood.

Like I said I'm searching and researching and I'm looking at the scientific evidence. I've already seen quite a bit and I want to do some field research on my own. You know, what people say and report needs to be substantiated sometimes. I would like to substantiate some of these things personally. If I can afford it that is.

Mathetes · 11-14-2003, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Larmore
If I abandon the flood per se' I will have to abandon the entire Bible as a credible source of inspiration from my creator. Even Jesus talked about the flood.

It's scary, isn't it? Remember that I said:

Quote:

The tricky part is that you have to be prepared to accept the truth even if you do not like where it leads you.

And you answered:

Quote:

I am about finding what the truth is and I too will accept where it leads me (...)

Truth's a bitch. It made Oedipus pluck his eyes out.

The flood never happened, or we will have to throw away everything we know of geology, biology, archeology, common sense, and history or the civilizations that were contemporary with the flood and failed to notice it. And if Jesus talked about the flood, he was either lying, or just wrong. Or maybe his words were not carried accurately to us. You choose.

You do not have to throw away your faith, but you need to re-examine it in the light of science. The other option is what many Christians do: bury their heads in denial, and call it "faith". (Fortunately, many other Christians don't.)

Hey, this is what I did for a long time!

Soul Invictus · 11-14-2003, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim Larmore
If I abandon the flood per se' I will have to abandon the entire Bible as a credible source of inspiration from my creator. Even Jesus talked about the flood.

Like I said I'm searching and researching and I'm looking at the scientific evidence. I've already seen quite a bit and I want to do some field research on my own. You know, what people say and report needs to be substantiated sometimes. I would like to substantiate some of these things personally. If I can afford it that is.

When did Jesus appeal to the flood?

Jim Larmore · 11-17-2003, 09:39 AM

I think it was in Matthew where He said that "as it was in the days of Noah , so shall it be at the comming of the son of man" this may be a slight misquote but its close. This is Jesus' mention of the flood. I think what the context is saying is that the whole of mankind in the antidiluvian society lost their lives in the flood and only a small handfull of people where saved, and it will be the same when the 2nd advent of the messiah occurrs.

Mathetes · 11-17-2003, 10:29 AM

Jim refers, I think, to Matthew 24.

Quote:

No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;
and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

It is also in Luke 17, that mentions Lot as well.

Quote:

Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man.
People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.
It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building.
But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.
It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.
On that day no one who is on the roof of his house, with his goods inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything.
Remember Lot's wife!
Whoever tries to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

Probably the saying came from Q (if you believe in Q)?

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11-13-2003, 12:34 PM	#31
Jim Larmore Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bartlesville, Okla. Posts: 856	You have your opinions and beliefs based on the information you embrace, but I'm not going to let you or anyone else direct where my search may go . The flood may be looney to you but to me I still have to convince myself that its not a possibility by investigating the evidence and I mean both sides of the arguement. I know you and others (Dr.X or ed. ) have already pointed me to web-sites which tell of the impossibility of the flood and I'll read them but I will also give the other side equal consideration. I also would like to do some field research on my own too. Theres a lot of info out there and it'll take time to go thru it. Too put it like ed. would ....."its hard to stuff ten pounds of crude in a five pound can"

11-13-2003, 01:37 PM	#32
Mathetes Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Spaniard living in Silicon Valley Posts: 539	Best luck.

11-14-2003, 05:55 AM	#34
Jim Larmore Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bartlesville, Okla. Posts: 856	Its been a long time I don't know how or where it will be. The questions would be in the area of where life started , why the isomers of amino acids are all one way, stuff like that.

11-14-2003, 06:50 AM	#36
Jim Larmore Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bartlesville, Okla. Posts: 856	If I abandon the flood per se' I will have to abandon the entire Bible as a credible source of inspiration from my creator. Even Jesus talked about the flood. Like I said I'm searching and researching and I'm looking at the scientific evidence. I've already seen quite a bit and I want to do some field research on my own. You know, what people say and report needs to be substantiated sometimes. I would like to substantiate some of these things personally. If I can afford it that is.

11-17-2003, 09:39 AM	#39
Jim Larmore Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bartlesville, Okla. Posts: 856	I think it was in Matthew where He said that "as it was in the days of Noah , so shall it be at the comming of the son of man" this may be a slight misquote but its close. This is Jesus' mention of the flood. I think what the context is saying is that the whole of mankind in the antidiluvian society lost their lives in the flood and only a small handfull of people where saved, and it will be the same when the 2nd advent of the messiah occurrs.

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