JeromeW

I am having a discussion (well it's uglier than that) with someone on forums.anandtech.com (politics & news) that "born again" encompasses Catholics as well as presbytarians too.

Now much of the discussion comes down to symantics it seems like but what generally encompasses "born again"? In my experience catholics never refer to themselves as born agains and the people that too are the more extreme flavors of protestants. Am I right or wrong? Thanks.

the_cave

Hi Jerome. Any Christian can refer to themselves as "born again". Traditionally Catholics have not used the label, but this is changing.

First, there are Charismatic Catholics, who emphasize the works of the holy spirit. They often speak in tongues, prophecy, lay on hands, etc. They have been a small but coherent movement for some time.

Secondly, there has been some recent attention to Evangelical Protestants who have converted to Catholicism. I suppose they could refer to themselves as "born again", if they feel they have had that experience. Often it refers to being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

So you would once have been right, and still are correct in general, but things are changing somewhat. There are small groups of Catholics who refer to themselve as "born again."

And for the record, most Presbyterians wouldn't refer to themselves as "born again" either, unless they were Evangelical Presbyterians (a separate denomination. Sort of.) Again, this is probably a generalization.

Hope this helps to answer your questionl.

gurugeorge

Strictly speaking, doesn't the term just refer to re-baptism? If you were baptised when you were young, but weren't into Christianity, but later get into Christianity consciously, and get re-baptised, then you are "born again". Wouldn't this hold for any form of Christianity that has baptism as a ceremony?

Strangeways

I've always been under the impression that most born-agains consider themselves to be non-denominational. Perhaps that's only the case for the few born-against I know though.

Toto

A decade ago, in 1994, a certain Michael Huffington was running as a Republican for governor of California, and was courting the religious right, which is a significant factor in California Republican politics. It was revealed that his wife, Arianna Huffington, nee Stassinopoulos, was a "minister" in a local meditation cult called MSIA. Mrs. Huffington then announced that was all in her past, that she had become a "born again" Greek Orthodox. The right did not challenge her, perhaps because they didn't know enough about Greek Orthodoxy, or perhaps because being "born again" has no particular meaning except to say that you are one of the gang.

All that aside, those who are "born again" claim that the Bible instructs them on how to do about it. But I don't see any clear instructions there.

The term "born again" is only used in the Gospel of John:

Jesus then goes on to make other crytpic remarks.

CX

"Born again" usually means a proponent of American fundamentalist protestantism. Even so religious terms are pretty malleable and used to mean different things by a variety of individuals. I do have to say I've never heard of a "born again" Catholic, but I'm sure they exist. There are as many different flavors of Xianity as there are gods in the Hindu pantheon.

seal_clubber

:rolling:

funinspace

"born again" is just another way of saying you believe in Jesus/Christ as your savior, so technically it covers all xians. However, the fundy types made it their favorite term. It's also a way of saying born a second time spiritually unto Christ. Some mainstream Protestants use the term, they just don't wave it around like a banner.

Baptism is a symbolic jesture to publically/outwardly show your change of life in Christ. When done as a child, it seams kind of pointless, but makes adults happy. Baptism would come after one becomes "born again". It could be done in short order, but they are not really the same thing. Then there is the dunking/sprinkling debate...even though it's all symbolic.

Chili

Not really. To be "born again" makes reference to a spiritual rebirth and that is the reason why fundy types are fundy types. Maybe for you but in my view a believers "change of life in Christ" is evidence of the baptism of fire . . . which is the actual fruition of the baptism with water. Please note here that in Catholicism water baptism is a sacrament and not a symbolic jesture while "baptism of fire" is not a sacrament and not even part of Catholicism itself but instead, it is the actual event where it all comes together in the end.

Chili

Pretty much but I am reminded here of Luther who wanted to replace the confessionals with hatching boxes.