mongrel

Texty, when I saw this, one question sprang to mind; Isn't resentment and jealousy considered bad behaviour too?

DrJim

texty,
sorry about hte m;isquote: got muddled real bad. No excuse really.

Hope there's no offense.

Jim

Texty

Mongrel wrote
Absolutely so what is your point??
Is it logical to say "don't feel angry or resentful if someone robs you"?

Texty

Jim wrote
Nothing to take offence over Jim

mongrel

My point is that the bible claims god is jealous(Exodus 34:14). I would just like xians to admit(for once) that if the biblical god exists, it is fully capable of, and sometimes engages in, bad behaviour.

Sorry for being so off-topic. It's just a random thought that came to me last night while reading after a few bottles of the amber fluid...

Texty

The word 'jealous' in the OT is not the same as our colloquial use, I believe it conveys the idea of God being intensely concerned in following his prescription for good living.
I wouldn't attribute the description 'bad Behaviour' to God, but consider this verse from Isaiah.

"there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." Isa 45:5-7

mongrel

Maybe I'm just a bit thick, but I don't see how that verse gives any indication that the use of the word "jealous" in the bible should be taken any way other than it's current meaning. It sounds to me like you are just changing the meanings of words, so it doesn't contradict your idea of what a god is supposed to be.

Also, that passage raises another question; Why would a supposedly omni-benevolent god create evil?

Another example of what I would consider to be bad behaviour in a supposed "supreme being", or anyone else:

Exodus 20
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity* of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

*Dictionary.com gives the definition of "iniquity" as follows:

1. Gross immorality or injustice; wickedness.
2. A grossly immoral act; a sin.

Texty

Well there's every reason NOT to! Do you go around speaking in elizabethan english like Shakespeare??
The common Bible was translated in 1611 there are dozens of examples where the word meaning has not only changed but become opposite.
In the 1600's to "let" meant to hinder or put an obstacle in the way - these days TO LET means "available".
The word jealous is closely related in the Hebrew to zealous and can be emotionally positive.
The 'good news Bible' for example translates Ex 34:14
......... I the Lord, tolerate no rivals .........

mongrel

Nah, I speak proper Ozlish!

Ok, you've given a 17th century definition of a different word, but what did "jealous" actually mean(as opposed to what it's closely related to, and so forth) in 17th century English? And can you give a reference?

The last passage I quoted(Exodus 20:5) seems to use the word in a way which, I think, could fit well with our modern definition.

I am inclined to think(until shown otherwise) that the "good news bible" is just that- a modern translation of an old book to soften it up for modern day readers, at the expense of authenticity.

Drew J

That really gets on my nerves too. What they really mean is this:
There are two ways to read it. The logical way in which the language is so plain that it does not allow for another interpretation. And then there is my way-pretending is says something that is in accordance with my particular beliefs.