Clouseau

The word 'fundamentalist' is singularly useless, because almost everyone claims to have the fundamental truths. Most people today use the word, within supposedly Christian circles, of those who take early Genesis literally. And with good reason. Justification by faith, hell for all unbelievers, Biblical inerrancy, homosexuality is sinful are the beliefs of all mainstream Protestant denominations, and, with one exception, of the Catholic and Orthodox cults also. There are many of any faith and no faith at all who believe that abortion is murder. So Young Earth Creationism (YEC) is a synonym for literalism and fundamentalism.

There is a strong correlation of YECers with KJVOers, I agree- and few of them know Greek, or want to. They are nothing to do with evangelicals, not because they believe this garbage, but because they do not actually believe in justification by faith. That is because they believe that reading the KJV, or believing that God made everything in six days, is more important than the gospel. An evangelical may actually believe in 6-day creation (though few do these days), but you won't hear him saying so, because he doesn't care what you believe about that- he is too busy talking about (or doing) things that matter. So the fundamentalist is diametrically opposed to evangelicalism, and at least as fervently as the Catholic or Mormon.

It is as well to note that evangelicals (it is their enemies who like to call them Evangelicals) do not refer to themselves as evangelicals, except in relation to other people who call themselves Christians. The word is a polite euphemism, and it is not entirely descriptive, either. Evangelicals consider themselves to be simply Christians, and everyone else as not Christian.

And they are pretty insignificant outfits at that, judging from their details.

You mean evangelicals. Neither do I- but there are even Catholics who call themselves evangelicals, sorry, Evangelicals, now. Everyone seem to want to get on the bandwagon- liberals, fundies, 'smells and bells' folk. In the old days, evangelicals used to get bad-mouthed by Catholics and 'most everybody. I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer it. We at least knew where we stood then.

Dargo

Every YEC I've ever known, and that's quite a few, believed in salvation by faith alone. The Fundamentalist Christian churches that I used to attend placed a strong emphasis on evangelism and missionary activity. I would sometimes try to share the Gospel in my fundie days although not very successfully given my poor social skills. Most of the infidels here who are former Fundie Christians had similar experiences prior to their deconversion. I think that former fundies have a little better understanding than you do of the beliefs of conservative Christians.

Clouseau

What you mean is that they say they believe in justification by faith. Christians do not add 'alone' either.

spin

Umm, wasn't Martin Luther's book called "By Faith Alone"? Luther was a christian wasn't he? I'm sure a simple google search for "by faith alone" will yield hundreds of thousands of christian pages.

Clouseau

Luther was writing in the face of Roman Catholic heretical teaching of a thousand years.

spin

Thanks for the retraction.

Clouseau

It's not a retraction. Christians do not use that phrase unless in the presence of the theologically inept or the mendacious- though that is more often than not, perhaps, on the 'net.

spin

You've just supplied evidence that shows you know that christians do use the phrase "by faith alone", even historically. That contradicts your position, so it is the equivalent of a retraction, unless you want to hold to contrary positions, ie that christians, or at least some christians, do not add 'alone' and yet some do.

In this post of yours now you shift from "christians don't" to "christians who are not inept don't". Yet another lot of evidence contrary to your original plea. When you're in the forest it's hard to distinguish the trees.

DISSIDENT AGGRESSOR

So Clouseau is basically saying that any English translation of Hebrew and\or Greek scriptures is wrong since it is simply impossible to provide a translation into any language without serious loss of information.

This would also apply to any language. including modern Hebrew and Greek, right?

Just asking, not trying to discredit anyone or thing...

Doug Shaver

I don't understand. Which of the following is negated by the assertion "Luther was writing in the face of Roman Catholic heretical teaching"?

1. Luther was a Christian.
2. Luther believed in justification by faith alone.