Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Newton's Cat · 05-23-2006, 03:04 PM

Read:

6,1-3

Why were they "offended at him"?

Insert 3,31-35 before "and they were offended at him"

Then read 3,31

Then 6,4-6

Mark's gospel has been subjected to major alterations and additions.

The original story of Jesus was very different from what we have today.

Toto · 05-23-2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Mark 6: 1 Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. 2 When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed.

"Where did this man get these things?" they asked. "What's this wisdom that has been given him, that he even does miracles! 3 Isn't this the carpenter? Isn't this Mary's son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren't his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him.

4 Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown, among his relatives and in his own house is a prophet without honor." 5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 And he was amazed at their lack of faith.

Quote:

31 Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32 A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you."

33 "Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked.

34 Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."

You may be right, but this doesn't add anything. There are quite a few NT passages that could be shuffled around with no great loss (or gain) in meaning.

Newton's Cat · 05-23-2006, 05:12 PM

Then there's Mark 1,35 - which was originally followed by Mark 1,40-42. Verses 36-39 are interpolations, as are verses 43-45.

To my mind verse 43 is startlingly different in tone to the previous verses - Jesus' atttitude abruptly changes from feeling a "deep compassion" for the leper to, immediately after healing him, "sternly admonishing" him and "putting him out".

Verse 43, etc., was NOT written by the same hand as the preceding verses.

Throughout Mark there is strong evidence that the text has been drastically altered by someone hostile to the very compassionate humanity of the original.

Geetarmoore · 05-23-2006, 05:25 PM

Interesting...

Do you have a complete compilation of Mark, the way you think it was originally penned?

RUmike · 05-23-2006, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newton's Cat

Then there's Mark 1,35 - which was originally followed by Mark 1,40-42. Verses 36-39 are interpolations, as are verses 43-45.

To my mind verse 43 is startlingly different in tone to the previous verses - Jesus' atttitude abruptly changes from feeling a "deep compassion" for the leper to, immediately after healing him, "sternly admonishing" him and "putting him out".

Verse 43, etc., was NOT written by the same hand as the preceding verses.

Throughout Mark there is strong evidence that the text has been drastically altered by someone hostile to the very compassionate humanity of the original.

That's probably because some think that the original did not read "compassion" but rather "anger", as some manuscripts have. Bart Ehrman argues pretty convincingly for this, in my opinion.

Charles Wilson · 05-23-2006, 05:59 PM

This is a pure symbolic play here. "Teaching in the Synagogue" is a reference to the Temple. The relatives are the fellow Priests and the Herodians. "Jesus" is announcing that he will be continuing his power play with those who believe in the re-invigorated Priesthood which the Jesus group advocates.

With what is known to have happened, the Jesus group is committing itself to complete opposition to the corrupt High Priests and Herodians.

The anger is found in the verse, "Tell me, it it right to help or hurt on the Sabbath, to save life or to kill?"

This verse directly states the result of the hatred of the Pharisees and ruling group. It is why Jesus chose these "followers" instead of his "family".

Charles

mens_sana · 05-25-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Wilson

This is a pure symbolic play here. "Teaching in the Synagogue" is a reference to the Temple. The relatives are the fellow Priests and the Herodians. "Jesus" is announcing that he will be continuing his power play with those who believe in the re-invigorated Priesthood which the Jesus group advocates.

Not that I can see. The setting is Nazareth and the text reflects nothing outside of Nazareth. The "synagogue" is a reference to Nazareth's synagogue. The problem is that Nazareth had no synagogue building, though it, like all other villages, had a "gathering." Mark is writing from the Diaspora where all synagogues were thought of, first, as buildings — not really an anachronism, but getting close.

Gamera · 05-25-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newton's Cat

Read:

6,1-3

Why were they "offended at him"?

Insert 3,31-35 before "and they were offended at him"

Then read 3,31

Then 6,4-6

Mark's gospel has been subjected to major alterations and additions.

The original story of Jesus was very different from what we have today.

My response from your other thread on Mark 3:

An interesting paleographic reading.

But I think you miss the import of the passage. The issue isn't whether he was recognized by the town folk. The point is, he was recognized. They're amazed if not indignant that this carpenter, this working man, is acting as if he were a learned rabbi. That's why they emphasize his occupation.

Here's the context.

Mark 6:1 He went away from there and came to his own country; and his disciples followed him. 2 And on the sabbath he began to teach in the synagogue; and many who heard him were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get all this? What is the wisdom given to him? What mighty works are wrought by his hands! 3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?" And they took offense at him. 4

In short, the quote is ironic. They're mocking him as a lowly person who has purported to have done great things and now is acting like a big shot, when they know better, because they know him and his family as just regular people.

By the way this not only fits this passage, but the general theme of the synoptic gospels about the failure of those around him to recognize his status as the messiah.

Charles Wilson · 05-25-2006, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mens_sana

Not that I can see. The setting is Nazareth and the text reflects nothing outside of Nazareth. The "synagogue" is a reference to Nazareth's synagogue. The problem is that Nazareth had no synagogue building, though it, like all other villages, had a "gathering." Mark is writing from the Diaspora where all synagogues were thought of, first, as buildings — not really an anachronism, but getting close.

Where is "Nazareth"? How about "Dalmanutha"? These are not towns at all. We'll agree to disagree here and that's OK.

The "synagogue" is in fact the Temple. These stories were written after a great injustice and "Jesus" is attempting to get the Pharisees et.al. to acknowledge the Blood Debt that they owe. The Court of the Herods is still hopelessly corrupt. The Pharisees will not admit that they took part in an atrocity committed against their own people.

Charles

05-23-2006, 03:04 PM	#1
Newton's Cat Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,181	Mark 6,1-6 & Mark 3,30-35 Read: 6,1-3 Why were they "offended at him"? Insert 3,31-35 before "and they were offended at him" Then read 3,31 Then 6,4-6 Mark's gospel has been subjected to major alterations and additions. The original story of Jesus was very different from what we have today.

05-23-2006, 05:59 PM	#6
Charles Wilson Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Saint Petersburg, Fl Posts: 51	Where is the Synagogue? Who are the relatives? This is a pure symbolic play here. "Teaching in the Synagogue" is a reference to the Temple. The relatives are the fellow Priests and the Herodians. "Jesus" is announcing that he will be continuing his power play with those who believe in the re-invigorated Priesthood which the Jesus group advocates. With what is known to have happened, the Jesus group is committing itself to complete opposition to the corrupt High Priests and Herodians. The anger is found in the verse, "Tell me, it it right to help or hurt on the Sabbath, to save life or to kill?" This verse directly states the result of the hatred of the Pharisees and ruling group. It is why Jesus chose these "followers" instead of his "family". Charles

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05-23-2006, 05:12 PM	#3
Newton's Cat Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,181	Then there's Mark 1,35 - which was originally followed by Mark 1,40-42. Verses 36-39 are interpolations, as are verses 43-45. To my mind verse 43 is startlingly different in tone to the previous verses - Jesus' atttitude abruptly changes from feeling a "deep compassion" for the leper to, immediately after healing him, "sternly admonishing" him and "putting him out". Verse 43, etc., was NOT written by the same hand as the preceding verses. Throughout Mark there is strong evidence that the text has been drastically altered by someone hostile to the very compassionate humanity of the original.

05-23-2006, 05:25 PM	#4
Geetarmoore Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 93	Interesting... Do you have a complete compilation of Mark, the way you think it was originally penned?

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