Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 08-16-2011, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avi

Quote:

Euclid and Plato, preserved in the books of Porphyry, were ordered to be burnt after the Council of Nicaea, while the Constantine Bible was replicated 50 times over.

Do you possess a source for this allegation?

Here's a rather decent web site, with a slightly different slant, created by a couple of British scholars--lots about Arius, not a peep about Plato....

Hi Avi,

Thanks for the link and question. The source for this allegation is the correspondence released by Constantine immediately after the Council of Nicaea. It states that the writings of Porphyry were destroyed. There is little doubt later Christian emperors found more of Porphyry's writings to burn.

It is generally known that Platonist Porphyry was the student of the imperially sponsored Plotinus, and also that Porphyry also preserved Euclid and other treatises.

Best wishes

Pete

Quote:

Constantine the King
to the Bishops and nations everywhere.

Inasmuch as Arius imitates the evil and the wicked,
it is right that, like them, he should be rebuked and rejected.

As therefore Porphyry,
who was an enemy of the fear of God,
and wrote wicked and unlawful writings
against the religion of Christians,
found the reward which befitted him,
that he might be a reproach to all generations after,
because he fully and insatiably used base fame;
so that on this account his writings
were righteously destroyed;

thus also now it seems good that Arius
and the holders of his opinion
should all be called Porphyrians,
that he may be named by the name
of those whose evil ways he imitates:

And not only this, but also
that all the writings of Arius,
wherever they be found,
shall be delivered to be burned with fire,
in order that not only
his wicked and evil doctrine may be destroyed,
but also that the memory of himself
and of his doctrine may be blotted out,
that there may not by any means
remain to him remembrance in the world.

Now this also I ordain,
that if any one shall be found secreting
any writing composed by Arius,
and shall not forthwith deliver up
and burn it with fire,
his punishment shall be death;
for as soon as he is caught in this
he shall suffer capital punishment
by beheading without delay.

(Preserved in Socrates Scholasticus’ Ecclesiastical History 1:9.
A translation of a Syriac translation of this, written in 501,
is in B. H. Cowper’s, Syriac Miscellanies,
Extracts From The Syriac Ms. No. 14528
In The British Museum, Lond. 1861, p. 6–7)

Roger Pearse · 08-16-2011, 12:52 AM

I trust that readers of this forum will know to ignore the statements in this post as factually untrue or so mis-stated as to be effectively untrue.

stephan huller · 08-16-2011, 01:08 AM

Pete lives in his own parallel universe. Can you imagine a Christian world without Plato?

Toto · 08-16-2011, 01:43 AM

Porphyry on wikipedia indicates that Porphyry's works were standard textbooks in the Christian middle ages.

A number of sources seem to agree that only Porphyry's anti-Christian volumes were destroyed by Theodosios in the 5th century.

You asked the same question here in 2007

stephan huller · 08-16-2011, 01:49 AM

My God, reading that linked discussion is so dreary. Will he ever stop? Is he the Incredible Hulk of Biblical scholarship? One can at least understand the zeal of someone who is part of a tradition. But this is something wholly made up in someone's imagination and he has the intensity like his Muhammad coming down from the mountain. Scary.

Someone should write a movie about him. The surfer who received a message directly from God that religion was the invention of Constantine.

DrZoidberg · 08-16-2011, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

My God, reading that linked discussion is so dreary. Will he ever stop? Is he the Incredible Hulk of Biblical scholarship? One can at least understand the zeal of someone who is part of a tradition. But this is something wholly made up in someone's imagination and he has the intensity like his Muhammad coming down from the mountain. Scary.

Someone should write a movie about him. The surfer who received a message directly from God that religion was the invention of Constantine.

I would actually like to see that movie. Mountainman getting to meet more and more prominent biblical scholars and who each completely obliterate his theories. But he keeps being optimistic. It's filmed in a way that we're led to believe that he'll be proben right in the end. But the twist in the end is that nobody agrees with him, but he still thinks he's onto something. It could actually be quite enjoyable to watch.

aeebee50 · 08-16-2011, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Porphyry on wikipedia indicates that Porphyry's works were standard textbooks in the Christian middle ages.

A number of sources seem to agree that only Porphyry's anti-Christian volumes were destroyed by Theodosios in the 5th century.

You asked the same question here in 2007

I hate to see books destroyed, but he should of found a way to hide them. It is strange that his name means purple which was the same color Constantine wore at the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.

PhilosopherJay · 08-16-2011, 05:52 AM

Hi Stephan,

I think Pete is helpful in reminding us just how little actual scientifically confirmed evidence there is for Eusebius' version of Christian history.
In a metaphorical sense one can say that Eusebius does invent Christianity (or at least a significant form of it). Pete takes it in a literal sense.
I think this is absurd, but no more absurd than those who believe that a carpenter's son from Galilee who thought he was a God and a few fishermen invented Christianity in the 1st Century.

A lot of people want to be the anti-Christ, he wants to be the anti-Eusebean. It is a little strange, but give him credit for originality.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

My God, reading that linked discussion is so dreary. Will he ever stop? Is he the Incredible Hulk of Biblical scholarship? One can at least understand the zeal of someone who is part of a tradition. But this is something wholly made up in someone's imagination and he has the intensity like his Muhammad coming down from the mountain. Scary.

Someone should write a movie about him. The surfer who received a message directly from God that religion was the invention of Constantine.

Doug Shaver · 08-17-2011, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilosopherJay

A lot of people want to be the anti-Christ, he wants to be the anti-Eusebean. It is a little strange, but give him credit for originality.

That I can do. I think the only one who's got him beat on that score is the fellow who claimed it was Josephus who invented Christianity.

stephan huller · 08-17-2011, 08:06 AM

I hate to see books destroyed, but he should of found a way to hide them. It is strange that his name means purple which was the same color Constantine wore at the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.

What color did you expecy Constantine to wear? Pink? A T-shirt that says “I'm with stupid”?

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08-16-2011, 12:52 AM	#2
Roger Pearse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 4,370	I trust that readers of this forum will know to ignore the statements in this post as factually untrue or so mis-stated as to be effectively untrue.

08-16-2011, 01:08 AM	#3
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Pete lives in his own parallel universe. Can you imagine a Christian world without Plato?

08-16-2011, 01:43 AM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Porphyry on wikipedia indicates that Porphyry's works were standard textbooks in the Christian middle ages. A number of sources seem to agree that only Porphyry's anti-Christian volumes were destroyed by Theodosios in the 5th century. You asked the same question here in 2007

08-16-2011, 01:49 AM	#5
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	My God, reading that linked discussion is so dreary. Will he ever stop? Is he the Incredible Hulk of Biblical scholarship? One can at least understand the zeal of someone who is part of a tradition. But this is something wholly made up in someone's imagination and he has the intensity like his Muhammad coming down from the mountain. Scary. Someone should write a movie about him. The surfer who received a message directly from God that religion was the invention of Constantine.

08-17-2011, 08:06 AM	#10
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	I hate to see books destroyed, but he should of found a way to hide them. It is strange that his name means purple which was the same color Constantine wore at the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. What color did you expecy Constantine to wear? Pink? A T-shirt that says “I'm with stupid”?

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