Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Thomas II · 06-23-2005, 08:28 AM

Acts 5:1-11 The Ananias and Sapphira story
http://www.nomoretithing.org/3910quote.htm

I say Peter killed them both and had them buried right away to hide the evidence. This was a murder case.

Thomas II · 06-23-2005, 09:52 PM

hmmm...No?

Ok,lets see...
What was the horrible crime thiscouple commited, a crime so tremendous that God decided to strike them dead on the spot?
They sold a piece of land , their land, and instead of giving 100% of the proceeds to Peter and Co. , they decided to give them just a part of the money...That's it!
Probably the night before the conversation went somthing like this:
"Honey,I sold the land...They gave us $50,000.!
So how much do we give Peter and his group of followers? The whole thing? Cause we have to fix the roof and the mule died a week ago so we need another one...Let's just give them $30,000 and use the rest for our own needs..."

Well,what do you know!! Famous last words!!
Imagine! These people dared to give away ONLY part of the proceeds!!
I tell you, THEY DESERVE to die!! :angry:
That will teach others not to mess around with Peter and ...er...with God...
And YOU KNOW God said to himself: "You let them get away with this and it sets a bad precedent...These two are going down!"

Now, Peter was there...and apparently these three young men who did whatever Peter told them to do...Peter the violent apostle who was ready with the sword in Getsemani and had to be stopped by Jesus...And Peter now was certainly ENRAGED with Ananias and with Sepphira because they kept some of the money from the proceeds of the sale of their property instead of giving it all to him...and his group of friends.
Peter was livid!! Furious!!!...And God must have been too because,in the words of Peter, God basically killed Ananias...and then he told the three helpers to bury Ananias without even telling his family,his wife...anyone...
Hmmm...Peter certainly was in a hurry to hide Ananias,wasn't he?...
I wonder why?...
So then, Sepphira comes in, and Peter STILL does not tell the woman her husband was dead AND buried, but then he proceeds to scare the woman to death, and lo and behold, God kills Sepphira too!! And the three men were there ready to bury her right away too!...Wow!!
And then,says the story,everyone else was scared shitless!!!

And God lived happily ever after cause he felt good about it...Those two sonovabitches where not gonna mess with Him ever again...keeping some money to themselves...I tell you...Justice was served...

Ok,so let me see if I got that straight...
Who was with Ananias when he died?...Peter?
And who was with Sepphira when she died?...Peter?
But Peter says that it was "God" who killed them...Hmmm...for the
"crime" of keeping for themselves part of the proceeds from the sale of their own property?

Would that fly anywhere?
Or would Peter be accused of manslaughter, if not murder 2, and the three men of accessory to the murder?

thegdin · 06-24-2005, 01:33 AM

that story sounds like the beginning of the Mob. extortion anyone?

Thomas II · 06-24-2005, 04:29 AM

And the general reaction in christian circles is : "Well,God taught them a lesson for not giving Peter all the money. That's right...Our God is some tough cookie!!

Let it bee known that our God does not take prisoners.
He would kill you on the spot,ZAP!,just like that, if you mess around with Him!"

That ol' Yahweh crap all over again!!

But the issue is that I don't believe for a second that God killed anyone!!
Period!! People don't die on que just like that unless someone else is involved
and it was not God. IT WAS THICK AS A BRICK PETER!!! He had a DIRECT involvement in the matter,and in the case of Sepphira he premeditated it!!
That one was actually MURDER 1. He waited for her...A simple old woman...
And killer her like it was nothing...In complete cold blood, almost enjoying her utter terror..."There, you hear them?...The men who did your husband in are now coming to get you...You are dead meat...I can hear their footsteps...
They're coming to get you!...Can you hear them too?...You are as good as dead..."

Oh,this Peter was a sweetheart...He was the one. Not God, not Jesus, not anyone...It was Peter plain and simple...He knew what to do and he did it well...

Thomas II · 06-24-2005, 02:32 PM

Ok, still not there? Let's see...Take a look at this...

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/306404.htm

and this

http://www.biblebb.com/files/KSS/kss-wl017.htm

and this, that should make you want to join ANY religion...

http://www.atruechurch.info/lordkills.html

Toto · 06-24-2005, 02:41 PM

Why should we assume that there is any history behind this story? Ananias and Sapphira could have died a natural death, and the early church claimed that God killed them.

Thomas II · 06-24-2005, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Why should we assume that there is any history behind this story? Ananias and Sapphira could have died a natural death, and the early church claimed that God killed them.

Toto,
I am going about on the evidence presented by the New Testament in the Bible.
Do you have ANY evidence that would point out something that would validate your statement? :huh:

Baidarka · 06-24-2005, 07:55 PM

The Feet Under the Door

My old post on this subject "Murder In Acts"

And

Imagine a first century TV news crew trying to uncover the truth about these deaths. An intrepid reporter chases after Peter and sticks a microphone in his face saying "excuse me sir would you please explain what happened to Ananias and Sapphira?".
Peter says " They lied to the Lord God so he struck them dead"
IR- Are you saying that God did it?
P- Yes God did it!
IR- Haven't you been telling people that the end of the world is coming and that they should give you all that they own to prepare for the end?

Peter's goon squad pushes the reporter aside and knocks over the camera man.

Thomas II · 06-24-2005, 08:42 PM

Baidarka,
AHA!

You saw it the same way then!! (I had not seen your posts until now)
Check also the link to the newadvent site and the comment about the Levites...the clerics...
Were these "three men" Levites?
Were they involved in the killings?
Did Peter kill them with his own hands?
And whatever happened to forgiveness?
And is death for keeping part of the proceeds a fair judgement?

You brought up a very good point . Imagine it happens today...Or imagine it happens in the Hare Krishnas or other cult...Would it be ok then?
Also,what do these actions say about the nature of the church?
Haven't they been involved time and time again in murderous situations?
What shocks me is that Jesus preached just the opposite behavior...things like compassion, forgiveness, love, non violence...

Chris Weimer · 06-24-2005, 09:09 PM

What's there to say that Ananias and Sapphira even existed at all? Or what if this was anti-Petrine rhetoric from the Lukan camp? Seriously, it's a story people.

06-23-2005, 08:28 AM	#1
Thomas II Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 8,254	Murder,he wrote... Acts 5:1-11 The Ananias and Sapphira story http://www.nomoretithing.org/3910quote.htm I say Peter killed them both and had them buried right away to hide the evidence. This was a murder case.

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06-23-2005, 09:52 PM	#2
Thomas II Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 8,254	hmmm...No? Ok,lets see... What was the horrible crime thiscouple commited, a crime so tremendous that God decided to strike them dead on the spot? They sold a piece of land , their land, and instead of giving 100% of the proceeds to Peter and Co. , they decided to give them just a part of the money...That's it! Probably the night before the conversation went somthing like this: "Honey,I sold the land...They gave us $50,000.! So how much do we give Peter and his group of followers? The whole thing? Cause we have to fix the roof and the mule died a week ago so we need another one...Let's just give them $30,000 and use the rest for our own needs..." Well,what do you know!! Famous last words!! Imagine! These people dared to give away ONLY part of the proceeds!! I tell you, THEY DESERVE to die!! :angry: That will teach others not to mess around with Peter and ...er...with God... And YOU KNOW God said to himself: "You let them get away with this and it sets a bad precedent...These two are going down!" Now, Peter was there...and apparently these three young men who did whatever Peter told them to do...Peter the violent apostle who was ready with the sword in Getsemani and had to be stopped by Jesus...And Peter now was certainly ENRAGED with Ananias and with Sepphira because they kept some of the money from the proceeds of the sale of their property instead of giving it all to him...and his group of friends. Peter was livid!! Furious!!!...And God must have been too because,in the words of Peter, God basically killed Ananias...and then he told the three helpers to bury Ananias without even telling his family,his wife...anyone... Hmmm...Peter certainly was in a hurry to hide Ananias,wasn't he?... I wonder why?... So then, Sepphira comes in, and Peter STILL does not tell the woman her husband was dead AND buried, but then he proceeds to scare the woman to death, and lo and behold, God kills Sepphira too!! And the three men were there ready to bury her right away too!...Wow!! And then,says the story,everyone else was scared shitless!!! And God lived happily ever after cause he felt good about it...Those two sonovabitches where not gonna mess with Him ever again...keeping some money to themselves...I tell you...Justice was served... Ok,so let me see if I got that straight... Who was with Ananias when he died?...Peter? And who was with Sepphira when she died?...Peter? But Peter says that it was "God" who killed them...Hmmm...for the "crime" of keeping for themselves part of the proceeds from the sale of their own property? Would that fly anywhere? Or would Peter be accused of manslaughter, if not murder 2, and the three men of accessory to the murder?

06-24-2005, 01:33 AM	#3
thegdin Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: orlando,fl Posts: 1,240	that story sounds like the beginning of the Mob. extortion anyone?

06-24-2005, 04:29 AM	#4
Thomas II Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 8,254	And the general reaction in christian circles is : "Well,God taught them a lesson for not giving Peter all the money. That's right...Our God is some tough cookie!! Let it bee known that our God does not take prisoners. He would kill you on the spot,ZAP!,just like that, if you mess around with Him!" That ol' Yahweh crap all over again!! But the issue is that I don't believe for a second that God killed anyone!! Period!! People don't die on que just like that unless someone else is involved and it was not God. IT WAS THICK AS A BRICK PETER!!! He had a DIRECT involvement in the matter,and in the case of Sepphira he premeditated it!! That one was actually MURDER 1. He waited for her...A simple old woman... And killer her like it was nothing...In complete cold blood, almost enjoying her utter terror..."There, you hear them?...The men who did your husband in are now coming to get you...You are dead meat...I can hear their footsteps... They're coming to get you!...Can you hear them too?...You are as good as dead..." Oh,this Peter was a sweetheart...He was the one. Not God, not Jesus, not anyone...It was Peter plain and simple...He knew what to do and he did it well...

06-24-2005, 02:32 PM	#5
Thomas II Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 8,254	Ok, still not there? Let's see...Take a look at this... http://www.newadvent.org/summa/306404.htm and this http://www.biblebb.com/files/KSS/kss-wl017.htm and this, that should make you want to join ANY religion... http://www.atruechurch.info/lordkills.html

06-24-2005, 02:41 PM	#6
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Why should we assume that there is any history behind this story? Ananias and Sapphira could have died a natural death, and the early church claimed that God killed them.

06-24-2005, 07:55 PM	#8
Baidarka Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 590	The Feet Under the Door My old post on this subject "Murder In Acts" And Imagine a first century TV news crew trying to uncover the truth about these deaths. An intrepid reporter chases after Peter and sticks a microphone in his face saying "excuse me sir would you please explain what happened to Ananias and Sapphira?". Peter says " They lied to the Lord God so he struck them dead" IR- Are you saying that God did it? P- Yes God did it! IR- Haven't you been telling people that the end of the world is coming and that they should give you all that they own to prepare for the end? Peter's goon squad pushes the reporter aside and knocks over the camera man.

06-24-2005, 08:42 PM	#9
Thomas II Veteran Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: USA Posts: 8,254	Baidarka, AHA! You saw it the same way then!! (I had not seen your posts until now) Check also the link to the newadvent site and the comment about the Levites...the clerics... Were these "three men" Levites? Were they involved in the killings? Did Peter kill them with his own hands? And whatever happened to forgiveness? And is death for keeping part of the proceeds a fair judgement? You brought up a very good point . Imagine it happens today...Or imagine it happens in the Hare Krishnas or other cult...Would it be ok then? Also,what do these actions say about the nature of the church? Haven't they been involved time and time again in murderous situations? What shocks me is that Jesus preached just the opposite behavior...things like compassion, forgiveness, love, non violence...

06-24-2005, 09:09 PM	#10
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	What's there to say that Ananias and Sapphira even existed at all? Or what if this was anti-Petrine rhetoric from the Lukan camp? Seriously, it's a story people.

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