Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Doug Shaver · 01-17-2006, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

Nobody likes to be told that they are fallen and that they cannot save themselves.

I don't have the slightest problem being told that I am not perfect and am incapable of making myself perfect.

I do have a serious problem being told that I deserve to suffer an eternity of torment because of my imperfections.

RUmike · 01-17-2006, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

What evidence convinced you to become a Christian?

Check his profile for your answer.

Wads4 · 01-17-2006, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatsoff

You seem to have misunderstood me.

Quite possibly, I often get hold of the wrong end of the stick. I would be grateful if you could explain more.

hatsoff · 01-17-2006, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wads4

Quite possibly, I often get hold of the wrong end of the stick. I would be grateful if you could explain more.

I do not believe the Resurrection ever happened, which is what your response seemed aimed at debunking.

Wads4 · 01-17-2006, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatsoff

I do not believe the Resurrection ever happened, which is what your response seemed aimed at debunking.

Ah, we are agreed then.

Sven · 01-17-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatsoff

I understand perfectly.

So why don't you give references, only names?

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Eusebius is the most obvious, but Prof. Arthur Patzia also comes to mind.

At least a name to research...

Quote:

That's a pretty bold assumption, since their resources are largely unknown.

So how exactly can you make the claim that their resources are indeed from the 1st century?

Toto · 01-17-2006, 02:16 PM

Arthur Patzia

Quote:

Arthur Patzia is Professor of New Testament at Fuller Northern California. He has been at Fuller since 1985, and served as director and academic director of Fuller Northern California from 1985-2002.

Patzia is a distinguished scholar, having authored numerous publications in New Testament studies including commentary Ephesians, Colossians, Philemon (1990); The Making of the New Testament (1995), also translated into Greek and Korean; The Emergence of the Church (2001); Pocket Dictionary of Biblical Terms (1998) with A. Petrotta, also translated into Portuguese, Dutch and Russian; and numerous articles in Biblical dictionaries.

The Making of the New Testament is rated very highly by JP Holding.

hatsoff, is there something you are trying to tell us? Eusebius is widely regarded as an unreliable Christian apologist by most atheists, willing to spin the truth if not lie outrightly to support the church. Why do you cite him as a scholarly reference?

hatsoff · 01-17-2006, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

hatsoff, is there something you are trying to tell us? Eusebius is widely regarded as an unreliable Christian apologist by most atheists, willing to spin the truth if not lie outrightly to support the church. Why do you cite him as a scholarly reference?

Well, I could be wrong, since admittedly I don't know much biographically about Eusebius, but his writing certainly seems very thoughtful and precise. As far as I know, the only mistakes he made in his Church History were peripheral and largely negligible.

Toto · 01-17-2006, 02:38 PM

OK hatsoff - where do you get this knowledge of Eusebius? You have evidently read him without reading the extensive commentary on him and the numerous allegations of his shortcomings. Are you a ex-seminary student? How did you decide that all religion is too ridiculous to believe, but you continue to believe what you were taught about Christian history?

Tigers! · 01-17-2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noah

The Resurrection is not a big interest of mine but I would like to know one thing. Paul says JCs resurrection is the basis for Christianity. In other words, no resurrection, no Christianity. But what is it about JCs resurrection that is so special? As you know, other people rose or were raised from the dead. Elijah was even taken up to heaven. If resurrection is the main foundation for Christianity, why do Christians worship only Christ?

All the other resurrections mentioned in both OT & NT i.e. Elijah raising the widow's son, Lazarus, Dorcas, Jairus' daughter et al all died again later. Christ died just the once.

And before someone gets picky I have not incluced Enoch or Elijah as they were taken by God and did not die.

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01-17-2006, 02:38 PM	#79
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	OK hatsoff - where do you get this knowledge of Eusebius? You have evidently read him without reading the extensive commentary on him and the numerous allegations of his shortcomings. Are you a ex-seminary student? How did you decide that all religion is too ridiculous to believe, but you continue to believe what you were taught about Christian history?

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