Adora

Okay, so my darling father brings a book by Barbara Thiering book home from the library. It's her one called "Jesus The Man". I think it was originally printed as a pay-off from a documentary she made along the same lines about her reasearch. She basically uses the Dead Sea Scrolls and pesher techniques to draw certain historical conclusions about the man called 'Jesus'.

I'm only very early in, and am having mixed feelings about it already, but I'm wondering if anyone here has read it/any other pieces of her work and what you think of the technique. Do you agree disagree with her findings? Technique? Sources? She seems to be jumping from historically-verifiable facts back to social myths cemented by Church doctrine and writing as evidence for her theories. It's very... off putting.

Amlodhi

Hello Adora,

I read some of Barbara Thiering's work, but it's been some years ago. IIRC, the book I read asserted that Jesus was one and the same with the Teacher of Righteousness described in the Qumran documents. Again, IIRC, her further assertion was that all the place names in the gospels were symbolic of locations within the district of the Qumran community and that the crucifixion was a symbolic rite performed by the Essenes.

My memory may be a bit off base here, but if my recollection is even remotely correct, my advice would be to save yourself some time and throw the book out the window.

Namaste'

Amlodhi

Toto

Thiering's work is rejected by modern scholarship of all bents.

Reviewed unfavorably by Lloyd Geering

Reviewed by James F. McGrath

A more favorable review by an anthropologist

But we have one poster here (offa) who might stick up for her.

spin

Barbara Thiering is a rather erudite scholar gone off the deep end.

Pesher method is not method at all. One works from the text in its historical context and there is nothing to indicate that Jesus has anything to do with the scrolls. Carbon 14 dating of the Habakkuk scroll puts it in the first century BCE, ie well before Jesus was supposed to have been, meaning that, to maintain her Jesus conjectures, she has to reject carbon 14 dating. To do so, she muses that the relevant writing surfaces must have been old when used so that they don't represent the time of writing but much earlier when the hides were first processed, ie she has no reason to assume what she assumes.

Historical method is the only approach to these documents and their implications. Any other method is wasted effort.


spin

offa

Offa,
I would just love to meet Barbara Thiering. I worship her.
That being said, I do not follow some of her leads. She does drift
now and then. I suppose she has to. She is a pioneer. Using her
"pesher" technique has opened my mind. Her teachings has allowed me to
understand our political world today.
Whether or not she is correct on what she writes about Jesus the
Man is irrelevant. Her pesher technique will open your
ears. But, you have to understand the technique. Our president, George
Bush unwittingly used pesher in the State of the Union

In his State of the Union speech Jan. 28, Bush said, "The British
government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant
quantities of uranium from Africa."

What Bush said was the TRUTH. But it was more importantly a lie.
Bush knew that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant
quantities of uranium from Africa. was unsubstantiated. But
because someone else said it, IT was the TRUTH. So his aide takes the
blame because Bush admits that he just "READS" his speeches. Is this
the pot calling the kettle black? If I (Offa) read a speech on my
behalf, I sure as hell would make it accurate. And, what more
important speech in a given year is more important than the State
of the Union? My charge is that Bush knew he was lying.
I read Josephus. Using Thiering's technique I understand
Josephus. And, Josephus lays it all out. When you realize that
Josephus uses pesher, then you understand. What made me aware of
Josephus' technique was that I read his Antiquities in reverse
(Having read the three [I]War[\I] books first). I was searching for
sources and did not want to start with Antiquities 1. In
reading Josephus backwards (going to the previous book and reading it
forward) I realized I was learning something. For instance, I knew
where Tyre was before I got to king Solomon. So when I read
Ant 8-3.08 I knew that Josephus was telling the TRUTH.
Go to Yuri's Rich Man's Question and read [I]Offa[\I] on
this forum. Then go to the indices of Jesus the Man and look
up [I]rich man[\I] then you will realize that I am telling the TRUTH.

Thanks, Offa

A little b.s. Yesterday I worked in the snow and rain. I finished my
last basement foundation (walls) for the year. Since March I have been
working from 5:30a to dark. I am always drunk when I write. I
take good care of my family, and, my son is in Iraq ... Baghdad.

spin

When you already know what you answers must be, evidence is inconsequential.

When you use "techniques" which have no method, you don't come to useful insights.

"Truth" is a flexible word meaning different things to different people. It is better to use terms that we can all agree on as meaningful. Dealing with history, we should be able to accept the notion of "what actually happened" -- at least at the level of simple manifestation.

Let's hope all the children in Bagdhad survive and that the politicians who manipulate them get their just deserts.


spin

Let's hope all the children in Bagdhad survive and that the politicians who manipulate them get their just deserts.

Adora

I have to admit. I have given up trying to read it. I found the book quite half-arsed and rather shoddy. Not good at all.

offa

Adora I have to admit. I have given up trying to read it. I found the book quite half-arsed and rather shoddy. Not good at all.


Let's admit it, Barbara Thiering is over your head. The biblical scholars on this forum are lacking. Just look under your pillow, you might have a dime.

spin

Grin. I guess that's why they threw her out of her academic job. She knew more than everyone else and they were jealous. Get real, offa.

You believe in the tooth fairy. Not many others do.


spin

Doctor X

I like that.

Many of them have. Some are still hiding. At least they cannot torture them, but they do not seem to mind if they blow them up to regain the right to torture them.

--J.D.