JesusLovesYou

I guess I would be offended, but it really is cute how it talks about being a slave to a God you don't believe in, so not really sure why you like it. How can He take your will if He isn't real?

Jesus Loves You

Bilbato

If you will note, he says, "give yourself unto your god" He does not say my god, YOUR god. And seeing as how, it is of my opinion, that gods are only powerful in the willingness of people to believe in them. They exist entirely within the mind, and so people will act as if these things within their mind are real, but they are just delusions, something to comfort them.

So in that sense, many people have a god. Whether it be money, sex, tv, games, books, or even Yahweh. And though the majority of them are in fact actual physical things. There are ones, such as Yahweh, which are nothing more then intangible ideas that have been passed down from a people who were once pagan, and had found a god that demanded that he is the god above all gods. And that they were to worship only him, and none of the others. So even the OT shows how pantheistic and pagan the Jews were, whom from which developed Christianity and Islam.

Good to know isn't it, that the religion you hold so dear... the god came from a world of pagans and that he himself was at one point a pagan god?

JesusLovesYou

[QUOTE]I guess that is your opinion, not mine.


[QUOTE]Why is it that I was told I couldn't use scriptures, but you all seem to bring them up alot. Yes, we all have planks in our eye, you are right there. Why shouldn't I comment on slams? I didn't realize I had really made any but if you say so then, sorry.



There is no way you could no that. I have been on this site for alittle bit of time in around 24 hours, so I don't believe you could know me enough to make that call.


[QUOTE]I guess we will just have to wait and see. Can't really see any reason to even discuss it let alone argue or anything about.



Why don't you ask Him, I really don't think I can answer for Him.


[QUOTE]I believe you might want to read the bible again, it plainly says that we can't be perfect here. Remember the scriptures that talk about the corruptible body?

1 Cor. 15:51-54
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Boy does the following scriptures spell out what is happening today to a tee.

Romans 1:16-32
16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

I figuare since you kept mentioning scripture, I could too. I guess I probably better go read the rules just in case I'm wrong. I know the moderator will let me know since they check all my post before posting them.

I will try and check back to see any questions/answers for me, but as I said I am only passing through so it could be a while but will check back.

Jesus Loves You

lenrek

From what I have been reading, I current view is:

He was probably a cult leader about whom people invented stories after his death.

Avatar

[QUOTE=JesusLovesYou]

A listing of the aims of the conservative theocratic movement:

1) The use of the death penalty would be greatly expanded, when the Hebrew Scriptures' laws are reapplied. People will be executed for adultery, blasphemy, heresy, homosexual behavior, idolatry, prostitution, evil sorcery (some translations say Witchcraft), etc. The Bible requires those found guilty of these "crimes" to be either stoned to death or burned alive. Reconstructionists are divided on the execution method to be used.
2) A church or congregation which does not accept the Mosaic Law has another god before them, and is thus guilty of idolatry. That would be punishable by death. That would include all non-Christian religious organizations. At the present time, non-Christians total two-thirds of the human race.
3) The status of women would be reduced to almost that of a slave as described in the Hebrew Scriptures. A woman would initially be considered the property of her father; after marriage, she would be considered the property of her husband.
4) It would be logical to assume that the institution of slavery would be reintroduced, and regulated according to Biblical laws. Fathers could sell their daughters into slavery. Female slaves would retain that status for life. Slave owners would be allowed to physically abuse them, as long as the slaves lived for at least a day before dying of the beating. 9
5) Polygyny and the keeping of concubines were permitted in the Old Testament. However, Reconstructionists generally believe in marriage between one man and one woman only. Any other sexual expression would be a capital crime. Those found guilty of engaging in same-sex, pre-marital or extra-marital sex would be executed.
6) The Old Testament "Jubilee Year" system would be celebrated once more. 7) Every 50 years, the control of all land reverted to its original owners. In theory, this would require every part of North American land to be returned to the original Aboriginal owners (or perhaps to those persons of Aboriginal descent who are now Christians). Hawaii would be given back to the native Hawaiians.
8) Governments would all have balanced budgets.
9) Income taxes would be eliminated.
10) The prison system would be eliminated. A system of just restitution would be established for some crimes. The death penalty would be practiced for many other crimes. There would be little need for warehousing of convicted criminals.
11) Legal abortions would be banished; those found to be responsible for abortions would be charged with murder and executed.

Say hello to fellows who espouse exactly the same mentality you have been.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm

And so he elaborated on his intentions regarding the wall between Church and State...specifically that it was not nor was ever intended to be one-way, unlike what numerous conservative religionists try to claim.

Like the archconservatives keep trying to do.

If Christians stopped at "mentioning", I would have no problem. I would continue to ignore them as I ignore the Mormons, the Muslims, and other groups who occassionaly try to intrude on my life. Christianity goes a few steps further than that though, trying to legislate their morality while pretending that the moral ideals of others don't exist. You think that's not happening? Take a look at these:

Pat Robertson (b. 1930)
Anti-American theocrat; Founder of the Christian Coalition (the Muthah of all Radical Religious Right groups) which shamelessly (and illegally) uses its so-called nonpartisan voter guides to steer religious voters toward Republican candidates; arguably the most powerful voice urging the replacement of the United States Constitution (governed by 'We, the People') with an Evangelical Christian theocracy

We have enough votes to run the country. And when the people say, "We've had enough," we are going to take over.
-- Pat Robertson, speech given to the April, 1980 "Washington for Jesus" rally, quoted from Robert Boston, The Most Dangerous Man in America, p. 29

If Christian people work together, they can succeed during this decade in winning back control of the institutions that have been taken from them over the past 70 years. Expect confrontations that will be not only unpleasant but at times physically bloody.... This decade will not be for the faint of heart, but the resolute. Institutions will be plunged into wrenching change. We will be living through one of the most tumultuous periods of human history. When it is over, I am convinced God's people will emerge victorious.
-- Pat Robertson, Pat Robertson's Perspective Oct-Nov 1992

We at the Christian Coalition are raising an army who cares. We are training people to be effective -- to be elected to school boards, to city councils, to state legislatures, and to key positions in political parties.... By the end of this decade, if we work and give and organize and train, THE CHRISTIAN COALITION WILL BE THE MOST POWERFUL POLITICAL ORGANIZATION IN AMERICA.
-- Pat Robertson, in a fundraising letter, July 4, 1999

There is no such thing as separation of church and state in the Constitution. It is a lie of the Left and we are not going to take it anymore.
-- Pat Robertson, address to his American Center for Law and Justice, November, 1993.

The Constitution of the United States, for instance, is a marvelous document for self-government by the Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian people and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society. And that's what's been happening.
-- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, December 30, 1981

The public education movement has also been an anti-Christian movement... We can change education in America if you put Christian principles in and Christian pedagogy in. In three years, you would totally revolutionize education in America.
-- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, September 27, 1993

I think patriotism, love of God, love of country, support of the traditional family. They [Christians] believe it would be good for our country if families were closer together.... I think they feel about them more strongly than others do.
-- Pat Robertson, speaking at a rally in Lansing, Michigan, in 1986, having been asked if there are some issues Christians feel more strongly about that non-Christians

Individual Christians are the only ones really -- and Jewish people, those who trust God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob -- are the only ones that are qualified to have the reign, because hopefully, they will be governed by God and submit to Him.
-- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, January 11, 1985, defending his stance that only Christians and Jews are fit to hold public office

If anybody understood what Hindus really believe, there would be no doubt that they have no business administering government policies in a country that favors freedom and equality.... Can you imagine having the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini as defense minister, or Mahatma Gandhi as minister of health, education, and welfare? The Hindu and Buddhist idea of karma and the Muslim idea of kismet, or fate condemn the poor and the disabled to their suffering.... It's the will of Allah. These beliefs are nothing but abject fatalism, and they would devastate the social gains this nation has made if they were ever put into practice.
-- Pat Robertson, The New World Order, p. 219

The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country.
-- Rev. Jerry Falwell, Sermon, July 4, 1976

I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!
-- Rev. Jerry Falwell, America Can Be Saved, 1979 pp. 52-53, from Albert J. Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom

I believe this notion of the separation of church and state was the figment of some infidel's imagination.
-- Rev. W. A. Criswell, interview, CBS Evening News, August 23, 1984, one of the first anti-Separationist statements from the Religious Right of today, from Richard Pierard, "Civil Religion: A Case Study Showing How Some Baptists Went Astray on the Separation of Church and State," Christian Ethics Today 2, No. 4 (November 1996): 4, quoted from Albert J. Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom.

God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them.
-- George W. Bush, according to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, from minutes acquired by Haaretz from cease-fire negotiations between Abbas and faction leaders from the Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Popular and Democratic Fronts (circa June, 2003), quoted from Arnon Regular, "'Road map is a life saver for us,' PM Abbas tells Hamas" (Haaretz.com:June 27, 2003), quoted from EvilOz (The Iterative Record)

I've heard the call. I believe God wants me to run for president.
-- George W. Bush, quoted from Aaron Latham, "How George W. Found God," George Magazine, September, 2000

They put the Negroes in the schools, and now they've driven God out.
-- George Andrews, in response to the U.S. Supreme Court's verdict in Engle v. Vitale (barring school-sponsored prayer), quoted from Robert E. Nordlander, "Madalyn Murray O'Hair: The Making of a Modern Myth" (Freethought Today, November, 1988)

Unique among the nations, America recognized the source of our character as being godly and eternal, not being civic and temporal. And because we have understood that our source is eternal, America has been different. We have no king but Jesus.
-- John Ashcroft, Commencement address given on May 8, 1999, upon receiving an honorary degree at ultra-right-wing and ultra-fundamentalist Bob Jones University, also known for its anti-African-American segregationist policies

post tenebras lux

Then why did you start your first reply to me with: 'Hello. You are not as cute as you think you are'? Were you trying to be insulting/condescending?



Nope, those were real questions. Is there one single agreed upon (by all christians) answer to each of my questions to you? If not, then I don't know what you, JLY, meant by those words.

For instance, when you said that 'Jesus is the Lord', did you mean 'Lord' as C.S. Lewis meant it in his original trilemma (sic)? Because Lewis was using Lord to mean 'a god'. Do you think that Jesus is a god?

If you do think that Jesus was a god, then how did he reach earth and where was he before he 'came to earth'?

If you think that Jesus was a god, then what do you mean by 'died'? Etc. etc.

So yes, JLY, my questions to you were serious 'real questions' and, no, JLY, I am not a mindreader and so do not know your answers to these questions.

Therefore, could you please be so kind as to answer my questions soonest? (linky provided for ease of replying to them)

Thanks in advance

Luxie

Queen of Swords

Just as almost everything you've been claiming so far is your opinion.

One reference to scripture from me was "alot" for you, was it? My, what little tolerance you seem to have for your own book.

"Sorry to burst your bubble", "You are not as cute as you think you are" - did you think you were being nice or polite here? Sorry to disillusion you, if that was the case.

Likewise, I don't think you could know me enough to claim what I will do in the afterlife, assuming that your god exists. See how it works?

Odd how you have made many pronouncements and claims, but when backed into a corner, it's the usual "I can't speak for god". Well, if only your god would register here, I'd be happy to ask him, but non-existence has that wee drawback.

So, for anyone else who wants to tackle the question Jesus Loves You cannot or will not answer - why is it important to the christian god that I kneel before him? Does it excite him in some way?

I believe you might want to read the bible again, it plainly says, "Be ye therefore perfect as your father in heaven is perfect". Can't get around that.

The cutting and pasting amounted to little but regurgitation of bible verses, and it only serves to show me that fundamentalist christianity breeds closed-mindedness. I hope that was your intention.

Toto

This thread lost its focus on Biblical Criticism on the first page. Its next home will be GRD.

Oolon Colluphid

He was a very naughty boy.

Actually, I think he was more Uri Geller than David Koresh. Like Geller, he was probably a magician who believed his own publicity. If he existed at all, of course.

RussianM3_dude

Look, JebusLovesMe, It might come as a shock, but not everyone thinks Jebus was a historical being and Bible is a word of Sugar Sky-Daddy Jebus.

I had NO knowledge of the Bible or Jebus when I was a child (Positive OR negative).
It was MY idea for my mother to read me the Bible every night before bed.
I, a seven year-old child found the Bible to be absurd, deranged ramblings from pseudo-cavemen. And most distressingly it was utterly boring. I lasted two weeks.