Toto

WTF? This is a discussion board. What do you think the line is?


There were cultural anthropologists living in the first century who back you up - ??

and also provided benefits to Jews. They were the governors.

Do the gospels describe a peasant? Jesus never lifts a hammer or a saw to build anything, never does any agricultural work. He has no peasant attributes. He is a wandering wisdom teacher who hobnobs with some rich people.

You know who wrote the gospels? None of your academic sources will back you up on that.

Then you should be able to quote something from the gospels that backs you up.

anethema

toto, i beg to differ. if there was a gallilean tax revolt movement in or around 40 ce the natural thing inthere mindset would be a central figure. ie. judas the gallilean or the egyptian. neither of these to my knowledge claimed messiahship. in any case messiahship was not inany way connected to deity inany real sense. bar kochba never claimed divinity to my knowledge but he did claim messiahship, see his coins minted during his revolt. the xian coopting of messiahship to me is an anachronism post bar kochba. there is no evidence for it in the 1st cen.

anethema

i dont claim any kind of clairvoyance in the study of ancient history. i also have grudging respect for aa's insistence on the preeminence of the existing texts, without that basis there is no room for argument. hes also quite wrong in assuming that they are recieved in pristine condition with no editing. but as astudent of ancient history what else do i have to go on. anyone with an agenda can argue biblical points in defense of his/her position. i think i'll leave this part of the forum and talk about rationalism in another part. i have found some interesting conjecture in this mess but no facts based on evidence, excepting aa's which to the elite it seems to me are unacceptable prima facie.

aa5874

Your claim is utterly in erroneous. You have ZERO evidence that the Jesus character was a man. You make stuff up and call them facts.

If Jesus was a man then the NT is NOT Credible so you MUST PRESENT your source for your "Poor Jewish Peasant who traveled to small villages for food scraps".

These are the Facts.

The Jesus STORY in the Bible with the character that sent Peter for the "money" fish was the Son of a Ghost.

The "money" fish story is in gMatthew 17 and Jesus was the Son of a Ghost in gMatthew 1.18

In gMatthew 14, Jesus the Son of a Ghost, Created Food for thousands of people.

The Jesus character in the Bible is a Myth.

The available dated evidence shows that the Jesus Myth Fables in the Bible were most likely developed and originated in 2nd century or later.

aa5874

Please, I have NOT claimed that the texts we have were NOT edited.

I have ALREADY wrote about the Blatant Interpolation of the Short gMark by the author of the Long gMark.

I do NOT assume a Text is edited--I deal with evidence.

The additional 12 verses in the Long gMark is a PERFECT example interpolation and false attribution.

Toto

I'm not sure where we disagree.

What you write is from the general history of the area, but there is no reason to identify Jesus with any of the political agitators in the area at that time. And the revolts of the first and second centuries seems to be primarily religious or political, not over economics, and were not led by impoverished peasants.

anethema

i can only cite rodney stark, in that in his opinion all the movements in the first cen. in palestine were economic in origin. when herod took over in the 1st cen bce it was on the basis of having control over the vast majority of money making operations in th area, ie the evidently vast mangrove orchards of the area. he ran judeae on the same basis ptolemy soter ran egypt as acorporation with him as the only stockholder. the temple as a moneymaking proposition pales in comparison. these people were being squeezed by the neck, and needed some kind of salvation, be it political or economic. or dare isay spiritual? this is where atwill and his fantasies come in. that the people in first cen galilee would embrace some sort of social justice and combine it with their ancient texts and prophecies is not crazy. nor is it what any theologian wants to get anywhere near.

outhouse

sources please

yes in many different places.


being from Nazareth which was a dump was known for housing low lifes and basically was a hovel

a tekton in the first century were known displaced hand workers who were renters who lived a life below that of the common peasant.


jesus did not work and had no income, he did not charge for healing or teaching.

he traveled after telling followers to give up all possessions and preached/healed for dinner scraps in very small villages in Galilee


when questioned for a few tax coins he couldnt even pay.


False

tekton



true

because a tekton had status below a peasant



a wisdom sage is only a small minor view held by some, and not a complete description.

Matthew doesnt claim to be rich, and good ole Zacc gave his money back to the people

which shows jesus preacher to tax collectors trying to get them to quit raping the hard working common jew. [hint the word is sedition]


and this hobknobbing as you claim, is what one dinner he begged for? while actually making money for other peasants??


while we dont know their names

we know the culture they were written to, and what kind of people would have done this writing. heres a hint [romans]


as jews didnt write any gospel, only Gmatthew is stated to be written to a more jewish audience, but of course, uses the roman foundation of Gmark, in which a jew would have never used.


my statement stands unrefuted



in the bible

nazareth
tekton
non payment of tax
no money for taxes
give up all possessions

outhouse

and all I hear is crickets

explain why roman god-fearers would deify one of their own oppressed peasant jews avoiding taxation and ticked off over the roman corruption in the temple/treasury viewed as gods house

aa5874

The Gospels are Myth Fables. They describe Jesus as the Son of a Ghost, God the Creator, the Son of God, that walked on water, transfigured, resurrected and ascended.

Please, your statement about Nazareth is unsubstantiated. We have absolutely nothing about Nazareth even in the Bible.

You have NO source of antiquity for your Nazareth stories and is just making stuff up. You are not doing history. You are just an inventor of fables.

More fables from outhouse.

In the Myth Fables called Gospels Jesus FED thousands of people from a few bread and Fish.

Please, tell us where you get your stories from because they are NOT in the Bible or any other source of antiquity.

You made them up, didn't you???