Toto

jkhuss1: you are abusing our hospitality. This forum is for discussing issues related to textual criticism and history. We are not interested in reading your preaching. You are not standing on a rock, we are not in denial of our parentage.

We discuss these issues because they are of interest in themselves, or because they are hot topics in our society, not because we have some hidden fear that a theologically and psychologically unsophisticated interpretation might be true.

jkhuss1

John 8:33-43 (KJV)
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.


John 8:51 (KJV)
51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

John 11:25-26 (KJV)
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

John 8:44-45 (KJV)
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

When you reconcider the Resurrection: you do have to reconcider Jesus, who made the profound statement - I am the Resurrection. . .

This is not Preaching. . . This is my uneducated research into the matter in question. . .

Doug Shaver

And my point is that your word is the only evidence I've seen for that claim. And you're not even claiming to have witnessed the resurrection itself. What you're claiming is that you saw a picture of the man and that someone told you the man in the picture had been dead a short while before the photo was taken.

If you have to ask, then you're in the wrong forum.

You say so. That doesn't make it so.

You're telling us a dead man came back to life. We don't need proof that it didn't happen. You need proof that it did happen.

I'm not competent to judge the picture's authenticity. Find me someone who is competent and I'll see what they have to say about it. Until you do that, your picture doesn't prove squat.

Doug Shaver

And you know that's true because someone told you so?

And you know that's true because someone told you so?

Amaleq13

Safer ground for Roger is a discussion of ancient texts. He is quite knowledgeable on the subject.

Save the sermon for the saps, padre.

'nuff said.

xaxxat

jkhuss1, has it occurred to you that believing that an ordinary human being can be resurrected from the dead (even after having his blood drained and replaced by embalming fluid) by a mere preacher does nothing but trivialize your god-man's resurrection by gawd himself?

:constern01:

PhilosopherJay

Here is an article from a humanist source of a Nigerian man who investigated the incident. http://www.secularhumanism.org/libra.../igwe_11_3.htm.

His conclusion is:

Here are two articles from Christian websites that are even more sceptical about the event. http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/bonnke2.html and http://letusreason.org/Popteac13.htm. They note the numerous discrepancies each time the story gets told.

The facts in the case are absurd at every point (e.g. taking a dying man out of a hospital and driving him 80 Km. over bumpy roads to a family physician, a mortician who is knocked out by a spirit and can't embalm the corpse, a wife who doesn't believe her husband is dead and takes him to a faith-healer). It was evidently a deliberate and planned hoax. The dead man, Pastor Daniel Ekechukwu, was the head of one of Reinhard Bonnke's churches. The man who signed the death certificate, Doctor Jossy Anuebunwa, was the dead man's family physician and a "Christian man".

The only real question is if the original car accident was real. It is possible that Reverend Ekechukwu was in a real car accident and used the occasion of a real visit to a hospital to fake death and resurrection. On the other hand, it is more likely the car accident itself was simply faked and he collected the insurance money on that as well as capitalizing on the publicity from the faked death and resurrection.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Evolutionist

[emphasis mine]

Why are you spouting off about being so stupid like it's a good thing?

jkhuss1

The most profound proverb in the book of proverbs came from a man who claimed to be more brutish that any man. . .

Brutish means stupid. . .

I personally believe that a person who claims to know everything needs a second opinion. . .

And the bible says that God uses the weak things, the base things, and the foolish things to confound the wise of this world. . .

I don't have an education. . .

All that I do know is that Jesus has come and made His abode in my heart. . .

NO. . . I was not there on the day that this man was raised from the dead. . . If we were not there then I guess we come to a stand still. . .

I have heard many stories of people being resurrected from the dead. . .

Even over in Korea. . . There was a girl who would fast and pray going from town to town laying hands on the sick, dead, lame, whoever and praying over them in the name of Jesus. . . She moved in the Power and Anointing of God. . .

But I wasn't there. . .

I do know that the Lord has saved, healed, and delivered me. . .

I've been healed several times by the power of the Holy Ghost coming upon me as I was praying to be Healed. . .

So, I believe in divine healing in Jesus Name and it would be real hard to convince me otherwise. . .

You don't have to. . .

People have free will

Johnny Skeptic

What are some facts in favor of the Resurrection?

What scientific evidence do you have that free will exists?

Do you believe that animals have free will?