Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 05-01-2009, 04:00 PM

Resurrection Reconsidered (or via: amazon.co.uk) by Gregory, J Riley is the Secular Web book of the month.

Quote:

Resurrection Reconsidered is an eye-opening exposition of the various views of resurrection among early Christians that centers on the protracted debate within early Christian circles concerning a foundational aspect of the Gospel of Thomas and its related literature: the concept of the body and resurrection. It traces the background of this idea in the Semitic and Greco-Roman world, and its expression in the Thomas literature as a whole: the Gospel of Thomas, the Book of Thomas, and the Acts of Thomas. But the inspiration for the study, and its main focus, is the controversy between the two closely related Christian communities of Thomas and John, between the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of John on the issue of resurrection, which is expressed in John most clearly in the story of Doubting Thomas.

Quote:

"This book contains erudite material stated in straightforward terms. Contra William Lane Craig's published contention that the concept of resurrection in first century CE Palestine entailed physicality, Professor Riley demonstrates in no uncertain terms that the cultural milieu was thoroughly Hellenized and that original Christianity was closer to believing spiritual resurrection of the soul than fleshly resurrection. The author carefully traces the pre-Christian spiritual concepts of resurrection and their impact upon canonical and noncanonical literature. Highly recommended."
- Barry Rucker

jkhuss1 · 05-01-2009, 05:11 PM

There is an Assemblies of God preacher named Rinhard Bonnke who had an embalmed dead man brought to his crusade meeting. The dead man was declared dead by a mortition and had a bill declaring his death. I have a picture of that man standing with Rinhard Bonnke holding his death certificate. - This happened recently.

There was also a Penticostal Preacher Named Smith Wigglesworth from the early 1900's who walked into a Funeral Parlor and picked up the Corpse of a man and commanded the dead man to live again. . . This same man - saw many sick, lame, deaf, blind, and demonic possessed people set free, healed, and delivered by the power of God thru simple childlike faith in the name of Jesus Christ.

Toto · 05-01-2009, 05:41 PM

Did any of these charlatans collect the $1 million from Randi? Why not?

Reinhard_Bonnke

Quote:

One of the most noteworthy miracles said to have occurred during a Reinhard Bonnke crusade happened in December 2001 at the Grace of God Mission Church in Onitsha, Nigeria. Pastor Daniel Ekechukwu said that he was certified dead for at least forty-two hours before returning miraculously to life there. A video was produced and distributed, entitled "Raised from the Dead" detailing this occurrence, featuring testimony from eyewitness accounts. Other Christians have questioned the authenticity of this event.[1]

Footnote 1 gives us Deception in the Church with some good reasons, both Biblical and forensic, not to trust this story.

Smith_Wigglesworth

Quote:

Wigglesworth believed that God had cured him of hemorrhoids, . . .

say no more.

If you must, the bio for Wigglesworth describes several faith healing incidents, but none involved certifiably dead people.

PhilosopherJay · 05-01-2009, 06:25 PM

"No miracle has ever taken place under conditions which science
can accept. Experience shows, without exception, that miracles
occur only in times and in countries in which miracles are
believed in, and in the presence of persons who are disposed to
believe them." --- Ernest Renan, 1863

"Indeed, Mr. Jefferson, what could be invented to debase the
ancient Christianism, which Greeks, Romans, Hebrews and Christian
factions, above all the Catholics, have not fraudulently imposed
upon the public? Miracles after miracles have rolled down in
torrents, wave succeeding wave in the Catholic church, from the
Council of Nice, and long before, to this day." --- John Adams,
to Jefferson, 3 December 1813

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkhuss1

There is an Assemblies of God preacher named Rinhard Bonnke who had an embalmed dead man brought to his crusade meeting. The dead man was declared dead by a mortition and had a bill declaring his death. I have a picture of that man standing with Rinhard Bonnke holding his death certificate. - This happened recently.

There was also a Penticostal Preacher Named Smith Wigglesworth from the early 1900's who walked into a Funeral Parlor and picked up the Corpse of a man and commanded the dead man to live again. . . This same man - saw many sick, lame, deaf, blind, and demonic possessed people set free, healed, and delivered by the power of God thru simple childlike faith in the name of Jesus Christ.

jkhuss1 · 05-01-2009, 07:15 PM

The accounts to destroy the testimony of the man raised at the Bonnke meeting are all criticisms and questions. . . No proofs to destroy the idea of it actually happening.

And as for Wigglesworth there are some where between fourteen and twenty-three accounts of the dead being raised up. I only told you of one. . . I don't have to prove it- I simply believe it. It stirs me in my spirit. . .

God the Holy Ghost causes dead things to live again.

The proof is in the Pudding.

jkhuss1 · 05-01-2009, 07:29 PM

"Toto

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did any of these charlatans collect the $1 million from Randi? Why not?"

Who is Randi?
I know that a Charlatan is a (false expert) but I don't know Randi. . .

I don't claim to know anything. . . I am foolish, weak, base. . . Simple. . .

Thank You

Zenaphobe · 05-01-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkhuss1

God the Holy Ghost causes dead things to live again.

Except for fundamentalists minds.

Steven Carr · 05-01-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Reinhard_Bonnke

Quote:

One of the most noteworthy miracles said to have occurred during a Reinhard Bonnke crusade happened in December 2001 at the Grace of God Mission Church in Onitsha, Nigeria. Pastor Daniel Ekechukwu said that he was certified dead for at least forty-two hours before returning miraculously to life there. A video was produced and distributed, entitled "Raised from the Dead" detailing this occurrence, featuring testimony from eyewitness accounts. Other Christians have questioned the authenticity of this event.[1]

Why should this guy from Nigeria collect 1 million dollars from James Randi?

He already has 75 million dollars in his bank account, which he needs to transfer to a bank in the US.

Simply send him your bank details, and he will arrange the transfer of funds.

Toto · 05-02-2009, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkhuss1

"Toto

Did any of these charlatans collect the $1 million from Randi? Why not?"

Who is Randi?
I know that a Charlatan is a (false expert) but I don't know Randi. . .

I don't claim to know anything. . . I am foolish, weak, base. . . Simple. . .

Thank You

Randi is a stage magician who, as a hobby, specializes in exposing frauds - primarily psychics. He has an outstanding offer to pay $1 million to anyone who can demonstrate any supernatural ability under controlled conditions. His money is safe: this is just a way of smoking out fraudsters who take money under false pretenses - such as Reinhard Bonnke.

You have posted some strong assertions for someone who claims not to know anything.

spin · 05-02-2009, 02:20 AM

Raising the dead is relatively easy to fake through false witness. What is harder is the healing of an amputee, ie restoring the missing limb. Fatima has not provided one, nor Lourdes, nor any of the faith-healing con-artist fundy-manipulators. Where is all the before and after publicity: before, "look no limb!", after, "hey, I got my leg back, praise the lord, I can go back and work at the meat factory!!"?

spin

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05-01-2009, 05:11 PM	#2
jkhuss1 Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 173	There is an Assemblies of God preacher named Rinhard Bonnke who had an embalmed dead man brought to his crusade meeting. The dead man was declared dead by a mortition and had a bill declaring his death. I have a picture of that man standing with Rinhard Bonnke holding his death certificate. - This happened recently. There was also a Penticostal Preacher Named Smith Wigglesworth from the early 1900's who walked into a Funeral Parlor and picked up the Corpse of a man and commanded the dead man to live again. . . This same man - saw many sick, lame, deaf, blind, and demonic possessed people set free, healed, and delivered by the power of God thru simple childlike faith in the name of Jesus Christ.

05-01-2009, 07:15 PM	#5
jkhuss1 Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 173	The accounts to destroy the testimony of the man raised at the Bonnke meeting are all criticisms and questions. . . No proofs to destroy the idea of it actually happening. And as for Wigglesworth there are some where between fourteen and twenty-three accounts of the dead being raised up. I only told you of one. . . I don't have to prove it- I simply believe it. It stirs me in my spirit. . . God the Holy Ghost causes dead things to live again. The proof is in the Pudding.

05-01-2009, 07:29 PM	#6
jkhuss1 Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 173	"Toto Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Did any of these charlatans collect the $1 million from Randi? Why not?" Who is Randi? I know that a Charlatan is a (false expert) but I don't know Randi. . . I don't claim to know anything. . . I am foolish, weak, base. . . Simple. . . Thank You

05-02-2009, 02:20 AM	#10
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	Raising the dead is relatively easy to fake through false witness. What is harder is the healing of an amputee, ie restoring the missing limb. Fatima has not provided one, nor Lourdes, nor any of the faith-healing con-artist fundy-manipulators. Where is all the before and after publicity: before, "look no limb!", after, "hey, I got my leg back, praise the lord, I can go back and work at the meat factory!!"? spin

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