Mary.

Hey everyone!

I'm looking for some detailed information about the arguments for the J D E P redactions of the Bible and the Xian arguments against it. All I seem to find online is the Xian assertion that it has been thoroughly debunked, but not exactly how.

I know what the J D E P theory is, but if anyone can point me to a book or resource that explains it in detail (esp that cuts the Bible up into the J D E and P sections) and then other resources that detail the Xian argument against it, I would be most appreciative.

Thanks,
Mary.

Julian

First, you should do a search around here for 'documentary hypothesis' and you will find that it has been discussed here a lot. The theory has not been debunked but is alive and well. The two best sources on it are:

Who Wrote The Bible (or via: amazon.co.uk)
The Bible with Sources Revealed (or via: amazon.co.uk)

both by Richard Freidman.

Julian

dongiovanni1976x

I own both and completely agree...nothing better than those two books on the subject.

Codec

Me too - both great sources. You can also find the documentary disentangled sources online here.

spin

Despite the fact that it is all probably crap. This is certainly old technology -- Wellhausen tarted up. All evidence points to texts being written piecemeal after the exile. Can anyone for example give a historical context for Deut 28:68 before the time of Zenon (3rd c. BCE), when Egyptian Greeks were trafficking in Judean slaves? "The lord will send you back in ships to Egypt..." Why do scholars look to the Joseph novella as a Greek romance? The writing process of the pentateuch is more complicated than implied by all that alphabetical stuff.


spin

Julian

It is true that Friedman makes the texts much older than they probably are. In my mind the DH doesn't necessarily say much about the age of the texts in a direct fashion. I do think that the DH is useful in findings the seams of the 'piecemeal' text sections. So the question for you becomes, disregarding any age claims and specific author attributions, does the DH do a reasonably good job exposing the textual seams between authors/redeactors/stages of the texts?

Julian

Codec

For me it finally made sense of the old testament early stuff. Why there were sudden chopping and changes, repeated stories. It just seems a much better explanation of the confusion than anything else going. When pointed out as Friedmann does, you can see the discontinuities.

As to dating, I can't comment, not knowing the details that go into it, but many of his ideas make sense, even if one or two seem possibly a little strained - most make sense.

dongiovanni1976x

The more I study about the subject the more complicated it becomes, I think the hypothesis can't be dismised so readily. What are the points that Friedman makes which you disagree with?
:huh:

WishboneDawn

Um, I'm taking a christian lay ministry course and the whole foundation of understanding the bible is the documentary hypothesis.

I know we christians whine a lot about how you guys use 'christian' or 'Xtian' too generally when assigning us with beliefs or dogma but for the sake of accuracy and honesty it's really important to qualify your use the words.

Check out Religious Tolerence for a good description and references and this religious tolerence page for an understanding of who in the christian community accepts or rejects it.

That lay ministry course I mentioned Education for Ministry has some sample lessons (year 1, chapters 1-4) that will give you an idea of which was which. After awhile it's not so hard to pick up, especially with a good study bible like the Oxford Annotated, NRSV.

WishboneDawn

Thanks!