paarsurrey

The title and the above line has been posted on a Christian Forum by a poster today. I sent following response:

Hi

Islam/Quran/Muhammad are very clear about Atheism and Agnosticism, but before I give clear verses from Quran on it, I would say that the majority of Atheists/ Agnosticists have objections on believing Jesus as God (as wrongly understood by Christians from NTBible); which according to Islam/Quran/Muhammad he (Jesus) never was. So by denying divinity of Jesus (what Protestants or Catholics put forward) Islam/Quran/Muhammad has paved way for Atheists/Agnostics to become Theists or Believers; but no compulsion.

Now the Verses:

The Holy Quran: Chapter 14: Ibrahim

[14:9] And Moses said, 'If you disbelieve, you and those who are in the earth all together, you can do no harm to Allah; verily, Allah is Self-Sufficient, Praiseworthy.'
[14:10] Have not the tidings come to you of those before you, the people of Noah and the tribes of Ad and Thamud and those after them? None knows them now save Allah. Their Messengers came to them with clear Signs, but they trust their hands into their mouths and said, 'We disbelieve in what you have sent with and surely, we are disquieting doubt concerning that to which you call us.'
[14:11] The Messengers said, 'Are you in doubt concerning Allah, Maker of the heavens and the earth? He calls you that He may forgive you your sins and grant you respite till an appointed term.' They said, 'You are but mortals like us, you desire to turn us away from that which our fathers used to worship. Bring us, then, some clear proof.'
[14:12] Their Messengers said to them, 'We are indeed only mortals like you but Allah bestows His favours on whomsoever He wills from among His servants. And it is not for us to bring you a proof except by the permission of Allah. And in Allah alone should the believers put their trust;
[14:13] 'And why should we not put our trust in Allah when He has showed us our appropriate ways? And we will, surely, bear with patience all the harm you do to us. So, in Allah let those who trust put their trust. '
http://www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=14&verse=0

The Holy Quran : Chapter 112: Al-Ikhlas

[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say 'He is Allah, the One!
[112:3] Allah the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] 'He begets not, nor, is He begotten,
[112:5] And there is none like unto Him.
http://www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=112

Any comments by our friends at iidb.infidels.org/ Forum only for understanding their viewpoint and for reconciliation.

I respect your viewpoint.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics.

Solitary Man

A good friend of mine, who slowly has become more fundamentalist, and I had this exchange.

Me: "[I'm a strong atheist.] I believe that there is no God."
Him: "Well, you're halfway to becoming a Muslim."
Me: "How so?"
Him: "To be a Muslim you must utter these words, There is no God but Allah."

paarsurrey

Hi

I think it is a good joke. I appreciate it. I think there is another forum for the anecdotes. Light mood is good for health though.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Solitary Man

It wasn't a joke. He was serious (or at least half-serious) when he said it. But it's the same logic as what you said in your post about denying the divinity of Jesus.

You see, we don't just deny the divinity of Jesus. We deny all divinity. We deny that there is a God at all. Or if there is one, we do not have enough evidence to believe it.

:wave:

paarsurrey

Hi

I never mind, it is your own outlook. I don't find any usefulness for not believing in GodAllahYHWH or denying Him.

I respect you viewpoint though.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim

Solitary Man

The truth isn't always useful, but it is still truth.

Joan of Bark

Because if GodAllahYHWH doesn't exist, some other Gods might be offended and punish me eternally for believing in Him.

A Stable Flux

Hi paarsurrey. I'm interested in Islam and I hope you have a constructive time at IIDB.

I'm wondering what are the conventions dictated by Islam for people who are Muslims relating to atheists. My current understanding is that Islam instructs Muslims to be most kind to Christians and Jews, who are sometimes called "people of the [other] book". Then less kind to polytheists (some schools of Hinduism, for example) and least kind to atheists.
From what I've learned from some internet sites I have the idea that Muslims are by Islam supposed to be intolerant of atheists as people.
(source)

(ibid.)

It seems that atheists aren't even really recognised as such. As if a person couldn't actually live with complete disbelief in God and gods, which is quite insultingly eschewing. Also to provide a description of a 'freethinker' from one who considers himself one: a freethinker is someone who seeks to discover things for him or her self, someone who tests the normal answers society provides and is still questioning of the methods and values he or she daily lives by. Many freethinkers reject the idea they are living for philosophy, truth, usefulness etc. Freethinkers tend to not arrive at any value or idea, but are forever a work in progress.

Also for an example of Muslims relating to atheists I understand that Muslim men can marry whoever they please (people of any religion) whilst Muslim women are restricted to marrying Muslims. I also understand the same rules to be true of dating.

If I could be informed of more positive and respectful relations between Muslims and atheists instructed by Islam that would be appreciated, thanks.

Blui

Here i presume by agnostic it is someone who does not believe in Islam.

Islam consider's that they will burn in hell.

If they consciously reject Islam, they are to be killed, though this goes with any non-Muslim.

If someone became an agnostic after leaving Islam, they are also legitimate to be killed.

It is vague on Islam's attitude towards Christians and Jews, at least towards the end of Muhammads life, he considered them polytheists, but it seem's due to some quirk of history, Muslims by and large have forgotten this, and treat them as 2nd-rate citizen's.

Also, Muslims are never to take Christians and Jews for friends in Islam.

But then most Muslims are not totally Islamic.

paarsurrey

Hi

I agree with you. But mostly truth is useful also.

Thanks