Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Malachi151 · 11-17-2006, 02:14 PM

I've been to several forums, and I know that here we have quite a few pretty big names that post here, Earl Doherty, Vorkosigan, Richard Carrier. I haven't seen any place that discusses JM as much as this forum, nor where this is so much knowledge about it. Indeed I think you can probably learn more about MJ from the forum archive than from any published work just about.

So, is this forum actually the leading edge on this issue?

Obviously there are scholars out there doing some "real work" on this, writing papers, giving presentations, etc., but might they benefit by coming here to look around just as much as we benefit from their new information?

aa5874 · 11-17-2006, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

I've been to several forums, and I know that here we have quite a few pretty big names that post here, Earl Doherty, Vorkosigan, Richard Carrier. I haven't seen any place that discusses JM as much as this forum, nor where this is so much knowledge about it. Indeed I think you can probably learn more about MJ from the forum archive than from any published work just about.

I think this forum has destroyed the HJ position, it has no evidential legs to stand on. The HJ position is now left to believers and those with vivid imaginations.

Vorkosigan · 11-17-2006, 03:28 PM

Since when am I a "big name"? No way. I've neither published academically, nor written a book. The big names here are people who have done either or both -- Gibson, Carlson, Carrier, spin, apikorus (i think), etc. Please don't include me on any list of names.

Roger Pearse · 11-18-2006, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

I haven't seen any place that discusses JM as much as this forum...

May I just add that to me, at least, this material about this crank idea is beginning to be very wearisome. I don't read any of it, and it's driving out good material. Can we have a separate JM forum? (There is anyway a yahoo forum 'Jesus Mysteries', isn't there?)

All the best,

Roger Pearse

aa5874 · 11-18-2006, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

(There is anyway a yahoo forum 'Jesus Mysteries', isn't there?)

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Is that the forum for probabilities and plausibilities of the historicity of Jesus?

Toto · 11-18-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Is that the forum for probabilities and plausibilities of the historicity of Jesus?

The question of the historicity of Jesus can get very complex. Who do you mean by Jesus? If there was a historical person at the beginning of Christianity, how close did he have to be to the gospel Jesus to be counted as the historical Jesus?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JesusM...esus Mysteries

Quote:

In the course of our examination we have found that most sceptics accept that there is the clear possibility that an itinerant preacher with the common name, Yeshua, may have existed, but that eponymous person shared few of the many and varied characteristics and acts which were later accumulated into the gospels. Rather than simply assert or deny whether the word 'Historical' applies using a variety of possible definitions which suit various proponents' stances, our endeavours are therefore centred on the sources which made up the Gospel Jesus and how they were accreted into that complex combination of several characters represented in the canonical gospels under the name: Jesus.

JesusMysteries is an ongoing historical inquiry through 425 CE and not a religious one--omit apologetics . Exploration of the widely varied theories is encouraged in your search for truth.

There is a certain overlap in personnel between this forum and the JM group. This forum accepts and debates apologetics, as the JM list does not. The JM list attempts to keep the dialogue on a higher level and is more closely moderated.

gstafleu · 11-18-2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

Can we have a separate JM forum?

Interesting question. What would such a forum be called? Not just "Jesus Mysteries" I think, that is too reminiscent of F&G, which is only a part of JM.

"Development of Abrahamic Religions (DAR)" may be more like it? JM occupies itself with providing a developmental model of Christianity and the Bible, but could easily extend to Judaism and Islam as well.

There would of course be an overlap with ASC&H, but there would also be differences. For example works like The Corruption of Reality by John Schumaker, and Neuropsychological Bases of God Beliefs by Michael Persinger might be discussed there, while they are not discussed here (these two are just examples, what I mean is the biological/psychological/sociological backgrounds and mechanisms that underly religious belief).

That said, would there be enough of a distinction? Would there be enough traffic?

Gerard Stafleu

Vorkosigan · 11-18-2006, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

May I just add that to me, at least, this material about this crank idea is beginning to be very wearisome. I don't read any of it, and it's driving out good material.

Roger, let me know when you have the methodological basis to refer to the mythicist position as "crank." And don't bore me with comments about how 'the majority of scholars" etc etc. I know perfectly well how poorly supported the HJ position is methodologically.

Until you have a methodology, you're simply regurgitating faith positions.

Vorkosigan

rlogan · 11-18-2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorkosigan

Since when am I a "big name"? No way. I've neither published academically, nor written a book. The big names here are people who have done either or both -- Gibson, Carlson, Carrier, spin, apikorus (i think), etc. Please don't include me on any list of names.

hey hoser.

You're a celebrity.

Deal with it.

Vorkosigan · 11-18-2006, 06:12 PM

That's ridiculous, rlogan. There are areas where people know me, but this is not one. Please stop.

Michael

11-17-2006, 02:14 PM	#1
Malachi151 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 8,674	Is this forum the leading edge for Jesus Myth discussion? I've been to several forums, and I know that here we have quite a few pretty big names that post here, Earl Doherty, Vorkosigan, Richard Carrier. I haven't seen any place that discusses JM as much as this forum, nor where this is so much knowledge about it. Indeed I think you can probably learn more about MJ from the forum archive than from any published work just about. So, is this forum actually the leading edge on this issue? Obviously there are scholars out there doing some "real work" on this, writing papers, giving presentations, etc., but might they benefit by coming here to look around just as much as we benefit from their new information?

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11-17-2006, 03:28 PM	#3
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Since when am I a "big name"? No way. I've neither published academically, nor written a book. The big names here are people who have done either or both -- Gibson, Carlson, Carrier, spin, apikorus (i think), etc. Please don't include me on any list of names.

11-18-2006, 06:12 PM	#10
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	That's ridiculous, rlogan. There are areas where people know me, but this is not one. Please stop. Michael

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